June 7, 2013 at 12:36 am #40800
not sure in which forum to post this, because the experience of pure consciousness is not really ‘philosophy’, but i’m interested in how taoists think about experiences of pure consciousness.
are there experiences of pure consciousness in taoism and qigong practice? what is its place in taoist philosophy? i saw michael winn mentioned it a few times in the inner smile book… would it be considered perhaps as the upper dantian part of ‘original spirit’?June 7, 2013 at 2:13 pm #40801
One possible correspondence would be the “ling”,
the sort of prenatal aspect of soul “spark” that
generates who you are. This is what I would attribute
to the core self / conscious awareness of which you speak.
This is to be distinguished from the xin, “the heart-mind”,
which is an assemblage of the five shen, containing
with it the personality, emotions, ego, memories, etc.
The ling would be beneath this, devoid of all these aspects,
only consisting of the conscious awareness aspect of self.
This is my interpretation.
However, these terms are not well-defined in the literature,
and consequently there is not much agreement amongst Daoists
as to what they mean specifically.
Certainly from doing qigong and Daoist meditation/alchemy,
one can get clearer glimpses of this underlying conscious
awareness. I think few would argue that point. Some would
argue that that is the whole point of alchemy, whereas others
would say that it is only a part of immortality training.
This latter bit has caused many heated debates.
My personal approach is to hear all these entertaining
stories and theories, and to just file them away. Instead,
while subscribing to no theory other than keeping an open mind,
just do the practices, see what I experience, and see what occurs
SJune 21, 2013 at 6:08 am #40803
Tone is the use of pitch in language to distinguish lexical or grammatical meaningthat is, to distinguish or inflect words. All verbal languages use pitch to express emotional and other paralinguistic information, and to convey emphasis, contrast, and other such features in what is called intonation, but not all languages use tones to distinguish words or their inflections, analogously to consonants and vowels. Such tonal phonemes are sometimes called tonemes, where each toneme is a lexically distinct variant of the same phoneme, that is phonetically distinguished from other tonemes only by the tone of the vowel. Tonal languages are extremely common in Africa, East Asia, and Central America, but rare elsewhere in Asia and in Europe; as many as seventy percent of world languages may be tonal.
Pinyin uses either numbers or tone marks to indicate the tones. Here is the word ma with tone marks:
First tone: ma1 or mā (mother)
Second tone: ma2 or má (hemp)
Third tone: ma3 or mǎ (horse)
Fourth tone: ma4 or mà (scold)
The tones are used to determine the meaning of a Mandarin word. So mǎ (horse) is very different from mā (mother).
Sorry, but in my opinion it’s quite idiotic to borrow and mix words from certain type of languages…
Ps. ling1=?,ling2=?,ling3=?,ling4=?June 21, 2013 at 9:50 am #40805
(1177.2) 107:1.1 Since Thought Adjusters are of the essence of original Deity, no one may presume to discourse authoritatively upon their nature and origin; I can only impart the traditions of Salvington and the beliefs of Uversa; I can only explain how we regard these Mystery Monitors and their associated entities throughout the grand universe.
(1177.3) 107:1.2 Though there are diverse opinions regarding the mode of the bestowal of Thought Adjusters, there exist no such differences concerning their origin; all are agreed that they proceed direct from the Universal Father, the First Source and Center. They are not created beings; they are fragmentized entities constituting the factual presence of the infinite God. Together with their many unrevealed associates, the Adjusters are undiluted and unmixed divinity, unqualified and unattenuated parts of Deity; they are of God, and as far as we are able to discern, they are God.
(1177.4) 107:1.3 As to the time of their beginning separate existences apart from the absoluteness of the First Source and Center, we do not know; neither do we know their number. We know very little concerning their careers until they arrive on the planets of time to indwell human minds, but from that time on we are more or less familiar with their cosmic progressions up to and including the consummation of their triune destinies: attainment of personality by fusion with some mortal ascender, attainment of personality by fiat of the Universal Father, or liberation from the known assignments of Thought Adjusters.
(1177.5) 107:1.4 Although we do not know, we presume that Adjusters are being constantly individualized as the universe enlarges, and as the candidates for Adjuster fusion increase in numbers. But it may be equally possible that we are in error in attempting to assign a numerical magnitude to the Adjusters; like God himself, these fragments of his unfathomable nature may be existentially infinite.
(1177.6) 107:1.5 The technique of the origin of the Thought Adjusters is one of the unrevealed functions of the Universal Father. We have every reason to believe that none of the other absolute associates of the First Source and Center have aught to do with the production of Father fragments. Adjusters are simply and eternally the divine gifts; they are of God and from God, and they are like God.
(1177.7) 107:1.6 In their relationship to fusion creatures they reveal a supernal love and spiritual ministry that is profoundly confirmative of the declaration that God is spirit. But there is much that takes place in addition to this transcendent ministry that has never been revealed to Urantia mortals. Neither do we fully understand just what really transpires when the Universal Father gives of himself to be a part of the personality of a creature of time. Nor has the ascending progression of the Paradise finaliters as yet disclosed the full possibilities inherent in this supernal partnership of man and God. In the last analysis, the Father fragments must be the gift of the absolute God to those creatures whose destiny encompasses the possibility of the attainment of God as absolute.
(1178.1) 107:1.7 As the Universal Father fragmentizes his prepersonal Deity, so does the Infinite Spirit individuate portions of his premind spirit to indwell and actually to fuse with the evolutionary souls of the surviving mortals of the spirit-fusion series. But the nature of the Eternal Son is not thus fragmentable; the spirit of the Original Son is either diffuse or discretely personal. Son-fused creatures are united with individualized bestowals of the spirit of the Creator Sons of the Eternal Son.June 21, 2013 at 6:15 pm #40807June 21, 2013 at 6:37 pm #40809
I didn’t make any mistake, but something anyway happened with posting.
I only think that from the point of practice most usefull verbalizations are like that Eva Wong Dragon-Tiger classic translation.
As it is, it’s quite useless, but it’s original purpose is clear.
As I have understood M. Chia’s neidan teacher adviced him not to spend time studying obscure Taoist alchemical treatises, but clearly that kind of artefacts have some practical usability.
It’s the mnemonics for the formula system.
Ps. Sorry for my broken EnglishJune 21, 2013 at 9:41 pm #40811
You forgot ma5, which is the 5th or neutral tone.
ma5 is “ma” (question marker).
Who knows what other people mean, regardless of whether
they are speaking your language or not! So, in a way,
it is foolish to borrow someone else’s words even if
they are from the same language.
Rely on your own experience, not on what other people
think they know or lead you to believe they know.
StevenJune 21, 2013 at 9:59 pm #40813
Thought adjusters imply a separate entity, albeit
derived from the universal source (God).
On the other hand, the core self (what I said could possibly
be “ling”) is your fundamental essence. And while this
is also derived from the universal source (Tao), it is not separate
from you, but is–and always has been–you.
So, no, I would not say those two concepts are equal in
any kind of mathematical sense.
But how much of “channeling” is actual channeling,
and not simply the delusions of a person who fool the
listeners into believing it is from an outside source?
Lots of “channelings” could simply be misunderstandings.
How do you truly know?
Think about this last idea carefully, and you will come
to realize that no individual can truly be certain of
Who can you trust? What can you trust?
Not much, in my view.
SJune 22, 2013 at 2:13 am #40815
We can call “context” the entire “real-history-of-the-world,” if you like, in which this value of objectivity and, even more broadly, that of truth (etc.) have taken on meaning and imposed themselves. That does not in the slightest discredit them. In the name of what, of which other “truth,” moreover, would it?
One of the definitions of what is called deconstruction would be the effort to take this limitless context into account, to pay the sharpest and broadest attention possible to context, and thus to an incessant movement of recontextualization.
The phrase which for some has become a sort of slogan, in general so badly understood, of deconstruction (“there is nothing outside the text” [il n’y a pas de hors-texte]), means nothing else: there is nothing outside context. In this form, which says exactly the same thing, the formula would doubtless have been less shocking. I am not certain that it would have provided more to think about.
An idiosyncrasy is an unusual feature of a person. It also means odd habit. The term is often used to express eccentricity or peculiarity. A synonym may be “quirk”.
No I didn’t forget that fifth, but I have impression that it’s matter of research methods.
My first mandarin teacher, who was a native speaker, but clearly not a scientist (of phonetics with advanced enough laboratory tools) claimed that there is not any practical reason to differentiate further that fifth note because it arises from situations of using other more active elements of tonality.
HOWDYJune 22, 2013 at 12:39 pm #40817June 25, 2013 at 3:00 am #40819
Yes, actually Don Henley has called ‘One of These Nights’ and ‘Hotel California’ Eagles’ ‘satanic country rock’ albums in one their compilation albulm notes.
Ps. Sorry for off topic remark.June 30, 2013 at 6:45 pm #40821
Mediumship, or channeling, is the practice of certain peopleknown as mediumsto mediate communication between spirits of the dead and other human beings. Attempts to contact the dead date back to early human history, with mediumship gaining in popularity during the 19th century. Investigations during this period revealed widespread fraudwith some practitioners employing techniques used by stage magiciansand the practice started to lose credibility. The practice still continues to this day, and high profile fraud has been uncovered as recently as the 2000s.
Self-knowledge is a term used in psychology to describe the information that an individual draws upon when finding an answer to the question “What am I like?”.
While seeking to develop the answer to this question, self-knowledge requires ongoing self-awareness and self-consciousness (which is not to be confused with consciousness.) Young infants and chimpanzees will display some of the traits self-awareness and agency/contingency, yet not be considered as also having self-consciousness. At some greater level of cognition, however, a self-conscious component emerges in addition to an increased self-awareness component, and then it becomes possible to ask “What am I like?”, and to answer with self-knowledge.
I don’t think all mediums are cheaters and I think for example TUB is to some degree interesting if somebody gives any attention to religious texts.
There too seem to be some forms of mediumship which, because of their very involuntary nature, are more like form of possession.
Here self-knowledge in methodical sense is important.
Here again Castaneda type of recapitulation is totally unavoidable daily exercise immediately from the start for both hygienic reason as well as for rational control.
One could also get impression that maybe various forms of mediumship have been important for the development of Taoism.
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