- This topic has 19 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Continuing discussion below, which had lots of insightful comments about problem of following lineages in modern times, etc.
The Big Secret about Spiritual Lineages is that you don’t have to join some human group and go through their rites and initiations and become their inner door student to get the essence of what they have.
The Big Secret About Spiritual Lineages
Once you have trained to a certain level, you can tune in and download the lineage. Its all FREEWARE. All the lineages draw their power from our Original Ancestors, the source behind all lineages, the Earth, planets, sun & moon, star beings, the workings of the lifeforce. So as you train to a certain level – I use the Alchemical formulas as a way to structure that, but many other ways are available – you can draw on the powers behind all the human lineages.
The human lineages are useful because they have digested something of the interaction between heaven and earthl. So instead of you having to repeat their exploration, you download their discovery. They want everyone to have it who is open to receive it and willing to embody it or pass it along.
Its only the human priests/lineage holders who are possessive and secretive of their private doorway to heaven. But they don’t control the lineage, the needs of the life force control it. I have many times bypassed the group initiation process to get the essence quickly and without wasting time following the group of sheep waiting to be spoonfed their manna by the holy annointed one.
Of course, not everyone is suited to absorbing multiple lineages and digesting that meal. But more moderns are able to than perhaps in ancient times.so don’t feel the need to follow the rules, they may be out of date.
How do you train to eat lineages directly? By cultivating your own center strongly, having enough space in your inner cauldron for the unknown (another reason why strong religious belief not suited to this practice, too exclusionary and dogmatic). Another of many reasons why I follow the alchemical path. Its gives you the centerness and neutrality and kan & li skills needed to eat meals bigger than your tiny ego ever thought was possible.
michael winnHi Michael, as I am not that experienced in Alchemy yet: how does one differentiate between what is really going on and that which is just a byproduct of the mind’s ability to create?
“Tuning” into a spiritual lineage could be just the mind cheating you to believe you have tuned in. This is no criticism, just an honest question. And: don’t you think there to be “negative” lineages out there too that try to rape your soul? How to know?
(have responded to your Falun Gong answer too)
thankx for responding
Harry
Awesome post!!!!!!!
I’ve been kind of angry at the human lineages for their controlling ways and negative distortions and since I’ve recently discovered the sun, earth, etc… I’ve figured that I don’t have to mess with them in the slightest.
I hadn’t considered that the human lineages are predigested ****and still accessible****
Very Cool!!!
Thanks!!!
-YodaSince starting sungazing 2.5 months ago, I might have already been hacking into human systems through dreaming.
For instance, last night I was reading and rewriting the Christian Bible in my dreams and I’ve been avidly studying pagan documents too.
I’ve not done anything along these lines previous to sungazing.
Perhaps I’ve been taking what the sun is teaching me back to the human level of wisdom. So I may have started this process unconsciously.
Freeware… I wonder if it’s open source too… if we are actually changing or adding to the lineage in question.
-Yoda
Wow, such a great post, Thanks MIchael … I am getting to like you more and more every post. Maybe you are not such a bad guy after all.
The followingis in reply to oldh …. just didn’t want it to get lost down the line……..
I know that oldh has a concern further down the posts about how do you know if it is true,… and I personally fought with this for a long time and I guess all I can say from my own experience is that if you keep trying something and it just doesn’t work … then it probably isn’t the right way. Me … I am very stubborn .. it takes me a long time of repeatedly hitting myself over the head with a hammer before I finally “get” it. I think I will have contusions on my skull forever. If you just settle into yourself and really listen to your heart. Just you .. not every one else then you will find the answer to what is YOUR truth. Some things though you will just know. Like OldH not having trust in FalunGong … so why now doubt yourself. There is still work to be done then within … to let go of preconceived ideals, illusions. It is just digging in yourself and finding our why you do things. For me especially having someone tell me what to do, when to do it and trying to control every move of me as I had happen with a master was very difficult to accept and I just realized that it was because as a child I was never allowed any privacy, with 2 older brothers who kept peeking thru my door ALL the time. So that for me is a BIG issue. But having looked at that, the essence under that is that as individuals we have a right to ourself. Once one can see little triggers that make us act ways that we are not comfortable with, we can then let them go. Once we do that it is amazing how much clearer things become. For me I go the true source of white light and the creator. If what I find doesn’t sit true there, it is not comfortable to be with there then I discard it.
One thing that I found very effective in releasing old hangups and energy is breathwork. A good friend of mine taught me some Hendricks Optimal breathing techniques and they work wonders. Speeds up the process a lot. Kind of putting your trouble into a picture and blowing that picture away on a cellular level.I find it is best not to get too complicated with any energy work. Simple. Filter what you find thru white light. Stay centererd in who you are. Know what you believe in. The truth. And work with that. Never taking from it, only adding to it.
Sometimes we have experiences that allow us to know better who we are and what we believe in. These past 5 years have been like a hell for me in the energy sense anyways (I had beautiful days but my relationshop with energy masters was terrible) but looking back on it all – it was worth it. For now I know who I am, the same as I was before I met them … but with stronger conviction and also more knowledge of other things. I have experienced intense anger and then it just left.
Also a cleanse would be good. Lots of not so good chemicals, etc. cloud our thoughts … they did to mine. Each one of us is different… but sometimes fasting is a good way to clear our bodies and minds. Helps a lot. And don’t believe what they say that you need food all the time. Hogwash. (not sure where that came from, never used that before Hogwash?)
Anyways trust yourself for a change.
Yes there are a lot of not so good energies out there but you know what, they don’t stand a chance with us humans who have a good heart, a good knowing of “I am” and the truth and white light. And all being one this is only an experience to share. I used to think I needed to find that one way but now I think maybe it is just finding my way. And using what others have to offer to do that. I was always looking for someone to lead me …. I was told I was to be a leader …. gad I didn;t want that. But you know what. We all have to be leaders …. leaders in our own spiritual path. It is just that simple.
One step at a time.
Love
RainbowbearThank you Rainbowdear, I am appreciating all your comments. Stubborness seems to be a part of me as well… who knows who of us has more contusions…? Regarding me doubting: well. That is the skecptic in me. The same I doubt others I do doubt that my doubt is proper… that is damn trap actually. Nevertheless for me it was & is the right decision at this moment in time. I just find it hard to have enough trust that my true self will lead me… what is it anyway?
thankx again
Harry
previous post:
Since starting sungazing 2.5 months ago, I might have already been hacking into human systems through dreaming.For instance, last night I was reading and rewriting the Christian Bible in my dreams and I’ve been avidly studying pagan documents too.
I’ve not done anything along these lines previous to sungazing.Perhaps I’ve been taking what the sun is teaching me back to the human level of wisdom. So I may have started this process unconsciously.
Freeware… I wonder if it’s open source too… if we are actually changing or adding to the lineage in question.
-YodaThis is a perfect example of what I am talking about, albeit unconsciously.
Christ is western tradition alchemical code for the Solar Logos. Jesus was trained in internal alchemy in Egypt. All his so called miracles were just meant to be training sessions for his students on the power of the life force – not for the public.So Yoda stares at the sun, and has dreams of rewriting the Bible, which is mostly read by people who never bothered to go direct to the sun, but got stuck with priestly lineages and middle man interpretations. In the Catholic church you are not allowed to interpret the bible on your own, only a priest is qualified.
So alchemy bypasses the middle man, you become the mediator. But the catch is, you need a middle man to traiin you if you don’t want to spend so much time reinventing the wheel. Hence the function of spiritual lineages. But they are just beings who have “gone direct” and are now trying to serve as mediators to step down pathways to “eat” the higher frequencies of nature.
michael>Hi Michael, as I am not that experienced in Alchemy yet: how does one differentiate between what is really going on and that which is just a byproduct of the mind’s ability to create? “Tuning” into a spiritual lineage could be just the mind cheating you to believe you have tuned in. This is no criticism, just an honest question.
No need to deny your mind’s ability to create – that is the divine gift humans have. Just need to learn the difference between unified inner will and fragmented outer will (commonly called “ego”). Fusion of 5 elements 1 is a good place to go deeper into that one. Its the whole point behind 5 shen theory. as your shen begin to trust each other, you begin to trust your intution. Intuition and inner voices ARE your shen trying to communicate with you. If your shen don’t trust each other, it gets reflected in your persona as a general feeling of mistrust, that then gets projected out onto the world.
>And: don’t you think there to be “negative” lineages out there too that try to rape your soul? How to know?
Dark forces are real, and have their lineages/orgins. But they hate alchemists who have trained in the proper use of the life force to create harmony and balance. They run from the yuan chi that is cultivated, just like the Wicked Witch ran from water in the Wizard of Oz. Yuan chi dissolves them. Inner Alchemy is the strongest way to cultivate the Middle Path, in my book, and the safest for this reason.
(have responded to your Falun Gong answer too)
Your questions about Falun are really about trusting lineage. Is the falun “real”? Its a real symbol of the universal tendency of the chi field to move in spirals. That’s not the problem. It’s the claim that the teacher controls your access to this spinning symbol, and that you will lose it if you practice tai chi, or another qigong form, which are just other ways of moving in spirals.Its the FEAR that you can ONLY get this spinning from Li Hongzhi (notice he is not offering you other paths, so its not clear if he is just covering himself from earlier criticisms made about Falun). That you will have lost your virtue permanently if you leave Falun. These are all FEAR hooks. He could have just said, “hey, I made a great discovery – that if you tune into this spinning symbol that it will quicken your progress”.
There are plenty of spinning baguas in the Fusion process that do similar things, and I have introduced another one at the level of greatest kan and li – a fire method – that uses a double spinning symbol. Its Atlantean alchemy, but it fits at that level with Taoist alchemy.
So nobody owns these symbols. (Look at the mess of competing claims to symbols in the reiki community). What is needed by most people is practical applications of the spin – and in that, the Taoists excel. If I thought someone else did it better, I would absorb their technology into what I know. That is what the Taoists have been doing for centuries – abosrbing what works.
It’s called OPEN ARCHITECTURE as opposed to a CLOSED SYSTEM. The life force itself is the funadmental model of Open Architecture. So if you find a closed system that has something useful, I recommend you steal it and put it into an open architecture system of your own devising. That is exactly how I have packed my version of One Cloud’s Seven Formulas. And I would be delighted if someone stole my innovations and put them into a better system, or one that works better for them.
Michael“No teacher can GIVE you anything. You have to TAKE it from him.”
–G. I. Gurdjief
I find what you are saying here and in other recent posts very interesting and heartening.
One of the things I kept thinking about while studying Tibetan buddhism (which was not my first and contemporaneously only area of spiritual study-practice) while being very impressed by certain accomplished teachers yet uncomfortable with the (kadgyu) emphasis on “you-MUST-get-the-secret-from-the-qualified-tantrik-expertness” (which directly contradicts Sakyamuni’s death bed warning), was that to some extent it could be thought of as a kind of software package. Windows. A user interface. But I became increasingly aware that I wanted to know it from the ground up; I wanted to know how to program. What if my program crashes, or if I want to make a clever/convenient modification. No problem, I myself am a programmer! kind of thing. This is not as scary and risky as it sounds, as the key factor, as you say, is refining a connection to something much smarter than one’s normal everyday ego–the most intimate energy of your deepest sense of presence, which makes what may seem impossibly complex workable.
To that end (the end of not being too dependent on my spiritual computer savvy pals who know how that damn thing works) I was fascinated to come across references in old buddhist texts to “the hard way”, versus an easier way. The hard way was the way of deep learning from the ground up how the mind works, how perception operates, philosophical clarification of the mind stream, etc. Herbert Guenther is a good one for anyone interested in torturing themselves on the hard way, incidentally.
Well, and discovering daoist qi gong theory was definitely one of my lucky days, which, by the way, happened due to my doing an internet search on “taoist dream yoga” and coming up with an interview with yourself.
I’m not advocating reinventing the wheel, merely I think saying a similar thing differently, the idea of thinking yourself into the shoes of the wheel inventor. How to become an inventive person…
And I’m just discussing my own experience and aspirations, naturally.
And I thought, why not mix in your mind and practice what you’ve gleaned from multiple lineages? Should that really be taboo?
The rub is that one can, but one is better off being honest about really practicing and getting good at one thing, then another, as you say, so that you don’t end up with a grey smudge rather than a rainbow. And to that end competent teachers continue and ever will remain invaluable, at the very least for showing that “it can be done”.
Anywho, great stuff,
SimonThis discussion about spiritual transmission being freeware reminds me or a quote from Plato that goes something like, “a taoist has a soul akin to a hacker”. This seems to be somewhat in contrast with Winn’s suggestion that it is freeware. It is an interesting contrast in perception of the world: hacking vs. receiving.
Also, Simon, your mention of Herbert Guenther takes me back to the early 1980’s, staying up late at night in my parent’s living room, slowly reading through Guenther’s translation of “Kindly Bent to Ease Us”. A year later he was a guest speaker at a yoga conference in Calgary, and I remember how awkward he looked holding hands with others while in a big circle, while singing some native song with everyone else. A real head case – truly a perspicacious mind, and truly an unenlightened body.
Chris
Well spoken, Simon. I am not suggesting the Free Ware is any didfferent for a tantric buddhist than a taoist or a christian. It just has a different interface, wo it appears with different icons. But the core principles are always the same, only one life force.
Chris: Guenther is brilliant, and is into dzogchen, which is the closest thing to taoism in asia I’ve seen, and should not be confused with the later adoption of it by buddhists. Thanks for sharng the not-in-the-body anecdote – that is always the acid test from my point of view, and why I feel qigong is an essential component of mastering inner alchemy.
As for Plato’s comment about taoists being hackers, this and other comments of his confirm that he has likely fallen under the spell of Huai Nan, who professes mastery of both taoism and buddhism but is really a buddhist who knows little (experientially) about qigong or inner alchemy. A prime example of his superficiality is how Huai Nan ridicules taoists for running the orbit in endless loops around their body, instead of focusing on some higher true spiritual paradise sought by buddhists. The shows a kindergarden level of awareness of the purpose and function of the orbit, and how it holds a balanced space for cultivating the original chi within.
This is an age old polemic by buddhists in China against Taoists, and I find it is generaly borne of a combination of ignorance about what high level practice of either qigong or alchemy entails. Since they reject the theory, how could they possibly be motivated to practice it deeply, or even attract a good teacher?
Its combined with a fear of going deep into the body’s innate spiritual nature.I prefer taoism becaue it si body-positive. It is pretty much built into to Buddhist philosophy that “life is suffering”, and body is, under the guise of attacking bodily desires, given much of the blame. I trace it all to Buddha’s mother dying during his childbirth. Its a heavy thing to transmute, your mother simultaneously giving birth and dying on you, and I think he ran in every direction he could find to get away from the problem of the body. Buddhism died in India because of its negation of the self, people rightly kept wondering why bodies kept appearing if there was no self. The tibetan tantrics revitalized and transmuted it, and the chinese chan buddhists reworked it again, but never really restored or resolved the body part.
End of my polemic. 🙂
michael
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.