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The fact is that Middle Eastern culture is absolutely divine and completely heart centered.
If you enter the house of a family in the Middle East it is a beautiful experience, it is a home, a real home, a hearth, and warmth.
I have had many friends from this region since I was young living in London. Saudis, Lebanese, Syrians, Israelis, Egyptians.
People are simply warm and traditional and like I said heart centered.
Like the beautiful song of the Imam singing the Quran from the minarets I heard in Marrakesh.
Compare that to the violence and outright nastiness of Western social messages and “Twitter”. What idiocy.
Or the beautiful tiles on the Mosques, or the rose flavour in the Turkish delight.
Or the simple flowing robes people wear and the simple food, lamb with dates, couscous, olive oil.
And to hear the savage Western leaders talking about … whatever they talk about. It is disgusting. They kill and murder, they have zero idea about the people there.
Lockheed Martin murdering from the air.
Just deranged monkeys with their deranged egos.
And this is how all that is good is destroyed on this Earth.
And I recall those fables were people wake up from their sleepwalking and are ashamed and repent for their sins.
And those who enter a mosque and take off their shoes and bow and pray 5 times a day, they disgust us with their simplicity and humility.
Us in the Western with our “anal porn”, iPhone updates, and our campaign to KILL Cancer. Kill anything.
I have reached the age where it’s time to call a spade a fing spade. As Osho once said.
It takes some top notch shit to fertilize a beautiful flower.
I’d say we found our bag, eh? Shall we plant a golden age?
Little One
Are you talking about the countries where they throw off homosexualls from buildings ore punish them with a “whipping session”?
Where women are stoned to death if they got raped?
Where young women get mutilated in the genitals so that they can never have an orgasm?
Where around 90% of the people support sharia law?
Where part of the people do not listen to music and are not allowed to make music?
Where the sufis (this islam mystics) are not welcomed?
Where women are not allowed to leave the house without their husband?
Where tenthousends of people go on the street in violent riots after someone drawed a cartoon about their religious figure?
……..etc.Sounds beautiful!
The same thing was said of the Australian Aborigines, then the West came to put things right (and “coincidentally” take their land).
Your posts on Islam are ill-informed, childish and arrogant.
ILL-INFORMED
Is there violence in the Quran? Yes.
Well at least you got that one right. But even though the founding text is riddled with violence, apparently
Islam is not violent…
Really?
The founder of Islam was deeply violent. He was a warlord who fought in 27 military campaigns in the last nine years of his life. He ordered the beheading of hundred of Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe.
Not only is the Koran deeply violent, so are the Hadith. Here’s the charming Hadith (from Sahih Muslim) that’s included in the Hamas Covenant.
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
Unsurprisingly, the doctrines that developed from the Koran and Hadith are deeply violent. I suggest you go back and reflect upon the Lewis quote about jihad.
Islamic history is deeply violent. Centuries of violent conquest. How do you think the Islamic empire managed to expand so quickly after Muhammad’s death?
Apologists for Islam assert that Medieval Spain was a multicultural paradise under Muslim rule. Nonsense. Dhimmitude weren’t no picnic.
…it’s not like they spend their days killing each other.
Huh? Muslims are currently doing just that in the Middle East. ISIS has killed far more Muslims that non-Muslims. And the Shias and Sunnis were at it long before the evil West came upon the scene.
Islam was created many years ago to regulate the society of the time, judge it in that context. That is the place to judge it if you want to be objective. Against it’s own time.
Well if all Muslims judged the Koran as a work of its time, there’d be no problem. They’d assign it to the dustbin of history. But the majority treat it as the word of God and as true for all time. And many regard Muhammad as the perfect example of human conduct. (After all, that’s what it says in the Koran.)
Why do you think Khomeini legalized child marriage after the Iranian Revolution? Because of Muhammad’s marriage to child-bride Aisha. Why do you think ISIS took Yazidi women as sex slaves? Because sex slavery’s sanctioned in the Koran. Why do you think ISIS levied the jizya on Iraqi Christians? Hmmm. I wonder.
Now Islamic people are angry because their countries are destroyed and they react violently, but … anyone would.
Simplistic in the extreme. Lots of terrorists were born, raised and educated in the west.
CHILDISH
Your world view is typical of regressive lefists/SJW types. And it’s basically a childish, fairy-tale view in which one side is all bad (the evil, diabolical West) and one side is all good (the Rose of Islam). The adult world tends to be a tad more complex.
I’m no fanboy of Western foreign policy but I don’t peddle starry-eyed, cotton-candy fairy tales about the so-called “religion of peace”.
And it is a mistake for any person to imagine they live in Disney world.
Disney? Fairy tales?
ARROGANT
You accuse others of being brainwashed by the Matrix whilst you are able to see through it. Puh-lease.
Remind me. What was it that Michael said about ”wanna be guru-types”?
What is that?
Yes, invaders allways talk bad about the indigenous people to justify invading the territory.
I, like RichieRich am no fan of Western foreign policy…that is also a evil.But you talk is so far from truth, it hurts!
We have data about the questions that i asked….
In pakistan there are about 1000 honorkillings per year (women are killed).
And in Egypt around 95% of women are victims of genital mutilation.
If these countries and the ideology they run on are so wonderful..move there and live there for a while…of course if you become integrated into their society you are not allowed to leave islam…or you get killed.What a wonderful place!
Here in Germany we now have places in all the big cities (so called no-go areas) where it becomes increasingly more difficult for young women to walk alone on the street in short clothes.
the west is surly not perfect but the islamic countries are some of darkest places on earth…and that is clearly felt when we are in these countries and have some energetic sensitivity.
Firstly I would say that people grossly underestimate the level of brainwashing. And the level to which people adhere to the official messages. Look up the Milgram experiments. What do they say? They say that more than 95% of people do what the authority tells them. In fact very few are able to be individual.
Of course, people all think that they have their own well-considered view and defend it like you do.
It is difficult and painful to wake up. Why? Because your entire sense of identity your world is connected to the social matrix you live in. That is why waking up is called a spiritual death or facing the armies of Maya.
Probably if I said that to 1000 people, 990 would roll their eyes, 9 might think for a moment, and 1 might do something.
That’s the scale of it.
I have travelled to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Morroco, the PI, and muslim regions on India, so I am not talking “from the TV” but from personal experience. I very well know how Westerners talk about … just about anywhere else. They know nothing!
I am not left, that is a misunderstanding. The Left as you say is completely bankrupt for instance how they invite an invasion of foreigners in Europe. These people are even more stupid than the fascist militarists.
But my point is much deeper than that.
Standing back, the amount of muslim children and families bombed to death by the USA in particular is disgusting. And the West always gets on its high horse when 1 bloody soldier dies.
The people are fanatical fascists. Whilst back home in the US families wave the flag because you “defeated evil”. Well let me tell you seeing the dismembered bodies of a family lying with their intestines hanging out and their chldren eyes separated from their heads whilst the Hummers turn up … does not say much for America.
And btw you have the muslim population with their turban heads camels and AK47 fighting US soldiers each in 50,000 USD of body armour. It’s like UFC. When the opponent is on the ground, kick in the face, stamp on his head.
What kind of people do this ?
Only those in a declining culture.
It would be a great think if America was a strong courage culture. But running over women and children in your Hummer doesn’t do it for me. What went wrong over there?
For a unifying perspective we could say that once upon a time both American culture and Muslim culture aimed for and were something better.
Whenever I read something like you have written and Michael’s wholehearted encouragement it reminds me of what I am trying to do on my spiritual path, and quite how difficult it is.
And how far away from the bloodthirsty deranged human mental state you have to go to reach sanity.
2000 years ago Buddha solved all the problems, and yet no-one listened.
And no-one is ever going to listen.
Except for very very few.
You simply have to totally give up on human beings they have no hope.
I was reading last week a news story that contrary to popular belief mankind actually was walking upright 3,000,000 years ago … and one wonders if all this has happened before.
The whole cycle of the rise and fall of civilization. Millions of years back. And then a rock hits the Earth and kills everything, and the tectonic plates re-arrange and later on a new species of ape or whatever rises up, invents blue jeans and plastic surgery, and does the whole shabbang once again.
Earth is a savage unending carnival.
Only few will survive.
Few will make it.
Like acorns and oak trees.
Only one out thousands will reach the far shore.
The rest are already dead.
Who has the courage and spirit ?
Who has the salt and grit ?
It is the ultimate test.
All humans are exactly identical.
They are frankly too stupid to be religious. Humans eat and shit and *** and have little humans. They are little more than digestive tubes with a spine and a 4 things that come out of the body. That is it.
They are basic. They are violent and emotional.
Islam, if you want to discuss it look at it in its context, why it arose and how it regulated society.
MAN IN ACTION
And all human societies in action are just like attack dogs.
Do you know much about dogs ?
It’s like this, if they smell something they don’t know or understand (like brown people) they bark and act aggressive.
If that thing or person stands his ground then the dog back down. But if that thing or person is weak or turns his back, then the dog launches an all out attack.
This is how America acts against the Middle East.
And this is how all humans act.
Civilization is just a thin film on the surface of an ancient violence.
In previous posts you Islam isn’t violent.
Much of my previous post set out reasons why Islam is violent.
But you pretty much ignore what I said (see Steven’s posts), change the subject and return to your well-worn theme of the moral bankruptcy and degeneracy of the West. We get it. I mean, how could we not get it? After all, you’ve made your point many times before. And no doubt you’ll bore us by repeating it many (many) times further.
Then you repeat your point about brainwashing, something that, unlike us mere mortals, you’ve apparently transcended.
But even your vapid point about brainwashing doesn’t stack up. The mainstream media and mainstream politicians don’t relentlessly push the view the Islam is violent.
After Jihadi attacks, politicians have routinely protested that such attacks have “nothing to do with Islam” which, after all, is “a religion of peace”. What was it that Obama said? “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.” And parts of the mainstream media have articles ploughing the same furrow.
Contrary to your wildly simplistic view, opinions about Islam in the media, amongst politicians and amongst academics are not homogeneous but vary significantly. Which you’d know if you’d looked into the subject in any depth.
And, sorry, but the fact you’ve done a bit of travelling in Muslim countries doesn’t make you an authority on anything very much. To have something sensible to say about Islam, you need to have considered – amongst other things – its core texts and the resulting jurisprudence, its history and its contested nature in the present day.
I’m afraid waxing lyrical about “the beautiful song of the Imam singing the Quran from the minarets I heard in Marrakesh” (the Koran which btw you concede is violent) or about couscous doesn’t cut it.
To patronizingly suggest, as you do, that anyone with a different view on Islam to you is somehow the subject of media brainwashing is arrogant and laughable in equal measure.
I have just noticed it is indeed September 11th, so I hadn’t noticed that and I don’t want to offend anyone, okay.
But yes you are entirely correct, you and I are talking about different things, and perhaps I do have my own agendas re manufacturing consent.
Which is great, that means we don’t really disagree much !
Is the West Christian? I would say not. Although the deep currents are present, it has mostly eroded away.
When I am talking about Islam, I am talking about a society that was set up for a purpose hundreds of years ago that had much beauty in it. Because that is what Islam actually means.
When you refer to Islam you use it in the same way the social messages of the West use it, rather vaguely.
The West always needs an enemy.
Like the Commies, or Charlie, or the Elite Republic Guard, or WMD.
Basically it feels better to talk about how violent “Islam” is, rather than how many barrels of oil and gas there is under Iraq !!!
(115 Billion Barrells btw)
Perhaps it’s all an elaborate joke !!!
Anyway the truth is it is so hard to organise a society, that perhaps it is actually justified to have a sort of official enemy. Maybe there is no other way to organise the crazy monkeys !!! Ha, all is forgiven.
Also, I have the feeling America doesn’t have much traditional culture there, I am not sure Starbucks and HomeDepot really counts? You tell me, you live there.
But I remember Steve Martin saying about American culture:
“Here is a Tudor Mansion, and here is a Four-door Mansion !!!”
A well-informed post.
Noticeable how rideforever – once again – doesn’t respond to any specific points raised.
Plus ça change!
I respond but you do not understand !!!
Perhaps you can consider what Manufacturing Consent means.
And what it means for your views. Are they really yours, or perhaps someone gave them to you so that your whole life can be spent feathering their nest???
And then you can read the Milgram Experiments and try to comprehend what the implications are for you and those around you.
Then you can reconsider what you think is informed.
What does informed really mean ? Did you read the news really well ?
Alternatively you can do nothing and walk around believing you know what’s going on !!!!
I respond but you do not understand
I didn’t say you didn’t respond. What I said was that you didn’t respond to any of the specific points Michael raised. And you didn’t. Just as you didn’t respond to the specific points I or Steven raised.
Perhaps you can consider what Manufacturing Consent means.
But, there again, it would appear that you don’t see the need to engage in anything as grubby and lowly as actually responding to specific points. All you have to do is utter those magic words “Manufacturing Consent”. And then, in an instant, the fog will lift and us little people with realize that – unlike you who has seen the light – we’ve been so brainwashed for so many years.
ROFLMAO!
First, the Manufacturing Consent (MC) thesis relates to the mass media. But you erroneously assume that folk here have developed their position on Islam based on what they read/see/hear in the mass media. And that is despite Steven clearly saying
I evaluate religions by what they actually say in their actual books, not what’s on TV or what people claim and argue. People can say all kinds of stuff. I look at what it is actually written.
But if folk are formulating their views on Islam based on, for example, reading the core texts directly or by reading academic books, then the MC is irrelevant.
Do you think that my statement about Muhammad conducting 27 military campaigns in the last nine years of his life was gleaned from the Six O’Clock News? Do you think that I found the hadith I quoted in the Sunday Times? Do you think my remarks about dhimmitude in medieval Spain were based on something I heard on Radio Five Live? Strangely, the answer to all three questions is “no”. Because, strangely, this stuff isn’t covered much, if at all, in the mainstream media.
Second, when Islam is covered in the media, the range of views expressed is immensely diverse which – as I said in a previous post – you’d realize if you actually bothered to take a look. So even if folk were getting their info from the media, there really is no homogeneous, monolithic media viewpoint being rammed down people’s throats.
Third – and I know this will be hard for you to believe – but other people have actually come across the MC thesis. Hell, in my younger days I used to spend a lot of time on Media Lens which adopts an explicitly Chomskyian analysis of the mainstream media. So it’s entirely possible that some of us, if and when we engage with the media, are doing so with some understanding of the MC thesis.
For all these reasons, your attempts to dismiss views on Islam that differ from yours with the mere utterance of “Manufacturing Consent” are intellectually facile. Make that laughable and intellectually facile.
It seems to me that you’re not much interested in a reasoned discussion, an exchange of ideas. Rather, what you’re doing in your posts in playing a smug, self-satisfied game of signalling how stupid/brainwashed everyone else is and how oh-so-smart/unbrainwashed you are.
It ain’t big and it ain’t clever.
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