April 25, 2006 at 12:31 am #13261
I’ve been doing a little thinking about this and would like to share some thoughts to see if anyone would perhaps give their 2 cents on it.
I am a young guy in my 20’s and not looking for any relationships. But are relationships a must? Just because we are male or female, does that mean that we HAVE TO search for the opposite sex to be a lifelong partner? Is it OK if one just chooses to be alone, or is he missing a big peice of the puzzle? Is this a pros and cons kind of thing? If so, what is the conclusion that we draw from it?
FajinApril 25, 2006 at 2:17 am #13262
I would just check in to your intentions see if there are some emotions. For dating or for being single. In my own life I have been finding intentions behind a decision be very important. What draws me to some one or some where, what repels me from some one or some thing. What ever you choose as long as you are clear you will tend to not spend your chi on worry. But you most likely know that.
So that said. I will try to make a pro cons list at work and get back to you.
p.s. I have a post in the general section I would love to get feed back from people on economic philosophy.April 25, 2006 at 3:12 am #13264
One is always in relationship with oneself, whether alone or in partnership. “Wherever you go, there YOU are.”
Most people feel that being in partnership speeds up one’s growth process. One is challenged to be open, asked to see oneself. When you’re alone it’s easier to hide. But there are times when that is the right ingredient for your balance.
The real question is not analytical at all. The real question is: “What do I want?” Beyond that, it’s about facing what we feel when we ask the question.
-AlexanderApril 25, 2006 at 7:39 pm #13266
You’ve got chi kung syndrome! You’ve purified your energy and when you get into contact with someone holding on to murky, muddy energy you get pissed off. In my oppinion relationships are a must (this oppinion may change!) My thinking is this: Alchemy cultivates your internal, your microcosm… but if you just stick on the inside you would not be balancing with the outside, the macrocosm. Your dislike of relationships is an indication of a blockage (imo) or a persistant mental pattern – something that isn’t healthy (again imo). If you get addicted to the microcosm, your energy, you stop cultivating *life* – because ultimately that’s what it’s all about.
Another way to think of it is that you’re going through a phase… many cultivators go through a ‘hermit’ phase where they need to completely retreat from society… many, after some time, actually come out of isolation to find this powerfull life force that can be cultivated through very rewarding relationships.
It’s possible to relate to people without taking on their crap – and in many cases other people’s crap (and your reactions to it) will mirror back some of your own crap! Relationships can be a beautifull, playfull dance… or it can be hard work trawling through the muddy swamps of shared illusions… you get to choose which. I’m a great proponent of flexibility: if I have a distaste for something I try to discover the mechanics behind this and transform them – so that I have a *choice* whether I find the said thing distastefull or not… when I feel neutral about it, whatever has to happen happens naturally… I dont have to think/decide/plan/control/manipulate – I leave it up to the wisdom of my inner core (my True Will, using magick lingo).
PS have you ever found a scar beautifull?April 25, 2006 at 8:11 pm #13268
I do not dislike relationships and I haven’t developed any negative patterns as a result of disliking them.
My questions pertained more to male female relationships other than cultivation or a means for reproduction. The split of androgynous self into male and female was because stepping down into linear timeframe, the body will eventually die and a polarity is needed to continue. It’s like mitosis in your body, cell division needs to occur or the totality, ie. organism, will perish.
What about love, such a powerful vibration. Maybe this is another secret ingredient in the relationship of man and woman that I have yet to understand. Is it that different from love of self, love of nature, love of others? Is sex also an expression of love, not just cultivation? Lust is yang, love is yin. Extreme lust can cause one to rape others or sexually abuse them. Love for the opposite race has other functions. This is all very interesting.
Bagua’s advice was to naturally live your life and when that special someone comes, then you’ll know what to do, it’s transcendental. I guess one should follow his/her heart. It looks like the best thing to do is not to search, but welcome it if it comes.
The macrocosm relates to the Dao manifest ouside your body. The trees, sun, moon, stars, etc. and the yin-yang, wuxing, etc. workings of them. The microcosm is all that inside the body. I am just boggled by relationships as being a must, ie. is there a big peice missing if you don’t have a relationship with a woman? Maybe Michael’s Lesser Kan and Li fills the gap, I just don’t know.
Oh, and scars are beautiful, just look at it more closely – yin within yang.
FajinApril 25, 2006 at 8:20 pm #13270
>>The real question is: “What do I want?” Beyond that, it’s about facing what we feel when we ask the question.<<
*Thank you, Alexander, this was helpful.
It seems like we need to work on the negative ego, which leads us into the trap of wanting the wrong things. I guess it's best to continue with alchemical work and the heart will lead the way.
FajinApril 25, 2006 at 8:23 pm #13272
>>I would just check in to your intentions see if there are some emotions.<<
*That's good advice. When the heart is clouded with negativity, what you want, as Alexander said, will become a trap. Positive virtues will make the way clear.
It seems like we need to work on the ego.
FajinApril 26, 2006 at 4:30 am #13274
“The macrocosm relates to the Dao manifest ouside your body. The trees, sun, moon, stars, etc. and the yin-yang, wuxing, etc. workings of them. The microcosm is all that inside the body. I am just boggled by relationships as being a must, ie. is there a big peice missing if you don’t have a relationship with a woman? Maybe Michael’s Lesser Kan and Li fills the gap, I just don’t know.”
Fajin, apparently a part of you is (bravely) asking that question while the rest of you wants to stay safely in a more analytical mode about it.
In a previous message you talk about transforming the negative ego of wants that aren’t necessarily good for you. It is my experience that all our personality aspects have positive intentions they are aiming for even though some of them may be doing things (or prompting us to do things) we don’t like to get to their goals. I find it important to allow these parts to express and learn what they really want. Sometimes we have to do things we don’t like, are afraid of to get to know and change these parts by fulfiling them. This is where one has to trust, deeply. Your words tell me that you want to control things here instead of to enjoy them. You can’t control love, you can only let it do its thing with you. It is the unconditional love in the alchemical process which does the actual transmuting, not discipline. I think you need to get real fluid with this one and examine any resistance/fear you may have around this subject. If it’s new territory for you, you may have to let go of the security of what you are used to in order to explore and fulfill deeper parts of yourself that are now asking this question for your greater good.
-AlexanderApril 26, 2006 at 5:27 am #13276
Humans have the magical ability to feel love. Real Love is like weaving threats between people, partners, parents and children, teacher and student, friends. The stronger the threats the more committed you are to bring forward the very best in the other person, no matter the flaws or the weakness. You accept the fact that you are NOT perfect, that the other is NOT perfect, that the relationship is NOT perfect.
When you start off with a dream of perfection it will never work, nobody is able to be the perfect partner/friend. But when people weave threats of compassion, love and support it is the best deal you can get on this planet. Unfortunately our planet is poisoned with the drive for PERFECTION and it is the knife that is cutting the threats between people, cutting your inner threats, your ability to weave, to show your weakness and your flaws, to be open and honest about who you are, to express your love and support. When your inner threats are cut you become empty, hollow, lonely and disconnected. Giving distrust, hate and hardness.
True partners or true friends help each other to bring forward their possibilities, helping facing and dealing with their flaws without being stabbed. There can not be fear in a real relationship but when perfection has to be achieved there can only be fear and disappointment.
Weave your inner threats stronger, let go perfection, strive for the best, not perfection. And always focus on the best in the other, always feel the best for the other and practice your inner love, don’t expect anything back, but when the threats are strong, somehow it will…April 26, 2006 at 7:12 am #13278
>>I do not dislike relationships… I am just boggled by relationships as being a must, ie. is there a big peice missing if you don’t have a relationship with a woman?<<
ok – so you're saying you're confused by the notion that a loving relationship is a must… but who says it's a must?… it most certainly isn't… doing chi kung isn't a must, excersising isn't; neither is learning to read or write… it's just when you have the flexibility to experience all of these, you grow as a person. There is no big peice missing untill you ask yourself "is there a big peice missing"… that's when it's missing! :0)
One thing that wendy touched on is vulnerability… it's something most people get very wrong. To be vulnerable is not to be in danger, un-protected… it's the ability to trust someone or some process and let your true self out without any armour obstructing the light… I get a feeling that you're not used to being vulnerable – that's fine, because here's your opportunity to notice that now. You're obviously a dedicated cultivator… and I see it quite often, when people really get very good at something, that very thing tends to block out their true self from everyone else…
Here's a thought experiment… it's to work out your ego attachments… if you had to give up all your cultivation practices for ever, how would that feel? Imagine it vividly… Imagine that you are going to give it all up tomorrow. Imagine that you suddenly forget all the alchemical concepts… all the philosophy and idealism… If you feel a sense of loss, or just feel shitty coz of it; then your ego is using cultivation as a shield, as armour… to protect you from the unknown – whether it's a relationship, love, or a plutonic friendship or many other possiblities for your life.
Nearly everyone has ego attachments… it's a part of life… I know I do… and it's easy to think that because of your dedicated esoteric practices you're somehow free of these attachments – the problem is that the ego is smart and sneeky, it finds your blind spot (your practices) and starts using *that* as your armour… and often this goes unrecognised untill someone else points it out – and that's the chance to learn something new and grow!
I also somtimes find scars quite beautiful… it's counter-intuitive, but often by letting your guard down and allowing yourself to be vulnerable you create beauty in the world… even if it really hurts initially.
all the best,
fApril 26, 2006 at 12:56 pm #13280
It seems like relationships are alot about being vulnerable. It looks to me like one should become vulnerable if he/she has invested enough trust in his/her partner.
It doesn’t really concern me as to what relationships be like, it is more wether they are an instinct or just something that was meant to be. When you gave the example of giving up my cultivation practices, it doesn’t really relate to this. We are always in a mode of self-cultivation, always improving. It’s not an attachment, it’s consistency. Relationships between man and woman are about two not self. It appears that the goal of relationships is to make them one. Not 1+1=2 but 1/2+1/2=1.
Again, before others, first yourself. It also appears that the ego must first be worked on before others are brought into the picture. When you can have a balanced self-relationship, then you are ready for a dual relationship.
There’s also another thing about searching. Bagua’s advice was good, that we should just live life normally as we would and if that special someone comes, that we’ll know what to do.
Alexander said that cultivating a relationship is about unconditional love, not discipline. Relationships require alot of emotional energy. Through my cultivation, I haven’t really worked on my middle dantian that much and maybe this area is a little blocked. I’ll work on that and maybe once it is more open, I’ll get it.
Your advice was helpful Freeform, thanks!
P.S. You had a very intersting discussion with Nnonnth, it was enjoyable reading it!
FajinApril 26, 2006 at 1:23 pm #13282
if you want to work on your middle tan tien I suggest having a child or two. It is wonderful, and depending on how you make money they may not take that much time from practice especially if your partner is into cultivation as well. I think it is easier getting to the oneness of a relationship if there is a child. Also you can bathe your children and partner in the radiance of the heart as pactice and it will really make a difference in their lives. I’d say 1+1+1=1!April 26, 2006 at 2:50 pm #13284
firstly I completely agree with Pietro in terms of our cultural conditioning to believe that ‘Love’ is the ultimate attainment. The cultural notion of love is of the chemical variety – you ‘love’ someone and your brain releases feel-good hormones and you write songs and smile… then ‘love’ ends and you end up getting withdrawls from all those hormones and become like a drug addict on cold turkey – writing songs and poems about how much you miss your hormonal rush.
You really dont need to follow your cultural programming… it’s not a necessity in terms of cultivation. I am however suggesting that you *can* have a relationship that doesn’t follow the gushy, rosy, druggy notion of ‘love’ that hangs arround like an over-pungent perfume in our society. Having a relationship that comes from the deep centre has it’s benefits… one of which is opening your heart centre… but many others besides. Bagua’s advice is also great… start cultivating your heart and the flow of life will bring you to a time/space where you can continue making progress in that area – whether that’s in a form of a relationship or some other thing.
Vulnerability is one of those things you can learn in a relationship… it’s very usefull in many other relationships… such as your relationship with the tao… at some point all the cultivation, all the hard work and collected energy has to be released and let go of (that’s why I was pointing out a possible ego-grasping to your practice)… and all armouring, all your comforts, all the shields have to be lowered for the tao to flow through you – this requires trust and vulnerability…
>>P.S. You had a very intersting discussion with Nnonnth, it was enjoyable reading it!<<
thanks… at one point I thought Nnonnth and I were the only two reading that thread. I really enjoy your posts too, so forgive me if I come over a little over-bearing, but I feel as though we already know eachother so I end up jumping straight in the deep end.
All the best
fApril 26, 2006 at 3:15 pm #13286
>>You really dont need to follow your cultural programming… it’s not a necessity in terms of cultivation. I am however suggesting that you *can* have a relationship that doesn’t follow the gushy, rosy, druggy notion of ‘love’ that hangs arround like an over-pungent perfume in our society.<>thanks… at one point I thought Nnonnth and I were the only two reading that thread. I really enjoy your posts too, so forgive me if I come over a little over-bearing, but I feel as though we already know eachother so I end up jumping straight in the deep end.<<
*Feel free to step in between Bagua and I, it might change our point of view. It would help to enliven things. I also feel as if we know each other from reading your discussions with Nnonnth.
Smiling in the Light,
FajinApril 27, 2006 at 4:25 am #13288
You mix up Love and Romance. Love doesn’t mean being ‘nice’ for the rest of your lives. Sometimes you have/are (to) kick(ed), punch(ed) and push(ed) in a lesser nice way to make the other become aware, to help the other to open the eyes, Love can be very painful yet rewarding if one is not too attached to his/her ego.
‘Coincidentally’ I just printed a piece about Ganesha and my eyes fell on:
The more your inner wealth and wisdom is growing, the more you have to see the other bigger than yourself and let go of your pride by becoming humble.
Nice day Pietro
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