May 11, 2006 at 7:40 pm #13880
The time that your opinion was meaningful to me is past time.
Why is it that you hate life so much?
The anal boundary is the most surrendering and trustful one. Why is it that you want surrender from another being so badly? Why is it that you want power over another being? Is this the reason why you react so hard on my story? Is this mirror triggering something deep inside of you? While I moved on, digested and did something meaningful with this experience you still are fixated and looking for an answer in the black hole called anus. I wonder who is possessed Plato? I wonder who is creating bad karma?
If I see how my life and that of the ones I love is flowering so nice I have no single doubt in any direction that my choices and experiences were ‘wrong’. Don’t try to put ‘fear’ in my lap, I don’t bite. Don’t try to push me down Plato because I grew much much stronger in these past 4 years.
Your words are like a bad smelling wind coming from a deep shit hole. You deliberate want to hurt Plato, every love that is coming your way is slaughtered by your own self hate.May 12, 2006 at 12:33 am #13881
Plato is the shock jock of Taoist discussion boards. Once you realize this, everything he says can be laughed about and appreciated.
Of course, some people really dislike shock jocks like Howard Stern and will always see them as a turn off. I like to think people like that add a little flavor. I like putting Tobasco sauce or other stuff in my food now and then:)
I was chatting with a friend today and we touched on how people like to manipulate and judge eachothers experience rather than allow and embrace our unique journeys.
My guess is the juudgments and manipulations are not the direction of enlightenment .
Good luck.May 12, 2006 at 12:58 am #13883
As Max said, go back and re-read my post.May 12, 2006 at 4:58 am #13885
I reread your post several times, literally in amazement. Wendy’s assessments are accurate from where I am standing. You may not be able to see it yourself but the energies in your words do convey great pain and disgust with yourself and life. I do not know if you can receive a suggestion but if you could I would offer to you to read Eckhart Tolle’s book “A New Earth”.
Blessings, AlexanderMay 12, 2006 at 6:25 am #13887
I am not really amazed by the post and I can’t say I am too concerned about the underlying reasons behind his need to communicate in this way – that is his burden to bear.
In my opinion, it is very easy to be “shocking” – as Plato is – but it is *much* more difficult to help/assist/educate/enlighten (what ever word fits here the best!) a person in a way that is going to be relevant to the person you are trying to help.
EmelgeeMay 12, 2006 at 8:49 am #13889
Pain and disgust indeed.
Is there something wrong with seeing the suffering in life for what it is?
Should I drown myself in a New Age book to avoid the reality of it?
Should I allow Michael to pimp me to entities that enjoy supplying excitement to Belgian housefraus?May 12, 2006 at 9:29 am #13891
Start with your own suffering first Plato, instead of looking at the ugly wounds of this entire planet which we can not dissolve by pointing at it and screaming how horrible these wounds are. Yes they are ugly Plato but we can heal wounds.
Start with your own wounds first but then you have to let go of your famous bullet proof suit that is protecting your heart. You poison yourself with your pain and disgust. I hoped you had found a path that could help you with your issues but you did not find any salvation. Because it is love that can heal you, yet you hate ‘love’, you don’t believe it to exist. You battle with (self) love and (self) hate you harvest.
You seek power to overcome the pain, you can’t, you just can’t, at the end you will loose that battle.
I understand truelly why you see only suffering because that is what you believe. Your inner suffering must be horrible, if you only could start believe that there is love for you.
I never stopped loving you, never ever, Max loves you and many on this forum will offer their kindness and sympathy to you. This has nothing to do with New Age crap Plato, but with being volunerable and honest with you. Don’t stab, don’t crush it. I offer my inner most love to you but I can’t make you believe it, only you are the master to your salvation.
With so much love to you Plato.May 12, 2006 at 11:37 am #13893
I forgot all about that. Shit, I used to write some good poetry. These days I have the literary excellence of a public school student.
Anyway, I am glad you got something out of the Osho stuff.
If you want to be shocked, you should know that my current cultivation teacher is A WOMAN!
*SHOCK*May 12, 2006 at 9:27 pm #13895
You make me laugh, Plato! <– meant sincerely and not sarcastically.
Thanks, Pietro, for putting the post of Plato's poetry. It is good to know there are other facets to Plato's "published" behaviour. Maybe that is the most shocking thing I have seen pulshed by Plato!!!!
EmelgeeMay 13, 2006 at 12:48 am #13897
I view entertaining others as my duty. 🙂May 13, 2006 at 9:19 am #13899
Plato – can you respond or add to Pietro’s post titled “on shock and help” in any way?
I would be interested in your further views and not just your “shocking entertainment”!
To go back to your original post which, from memory, was your relaying to a woman your views on how to keep a man (paraphrasing here) – did you *really* say those things to her in that manner? The reason I ask is twofold – firstly, if you do consider yourself an “entertainer” perhaps you embellished for the purpose of your post and, secondly, the intent of your message likely would have been shocking enough without needing to be so…trying to think of the best words for it…blunt in the message.
A lot of women won’t agree with the concept of surrendering to a man – but perhaps if we interchange the word “surrender” with the word “trust”, we might get a little bit closer to what the intent of your message may have been.
EmelgeeMay 14, 2006 at 4:52 pm #13901
Plato definitively helps people – often a response may get unexpected readers thinking.
Some of his input and feedback has been really valuable in my journey. A person can be very skillful in communicating for a particular group – people come in different flavours. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t diss a person definitely, like nothing he could say would be of any value more.
And who said Plato hates life? Really, that’s not my impression. His quirks – I suspect that he is very conscious about them and deals with them, while we others have ‘flaws’ that aren’t visible on a public board. I’m no saint compared to him, and try to remember that words on a forum doesn’t reveal but a piece of a personality.
This is an internet forum and I acknowledge that I can’t wear my heart on my shirtsleeve – I come in contact with people that I otherwise wouldn’t meet, communication is much more unclear, and especially, more open for everybody, independent of whether I like them or not. For me this is one of the strenghts of online communications – I can receive different answers than I would get in real life due to selection. This difference offers me a chance to test my beliefs and boundaries, and to grow a little bit as a person.
Off course, direct insults and personal attacks I don’t care much for.
A WWW without Plato would be a bit less rewarding, a web without all you other, so too.
MandrakeMay 14, 2006 at 9:04 pm #13903
I think that these are very wise words which you address. Everyone should be resonsible for themselves and by doing so, should help themselves. It’s why I didn’t like listening to Alexander’s suggestions about myself. Of course, we may give our opinions and suggestions about other issues, but about our individual self, we must be responsible for what we are.
As long as we share mutual respect for one another, and become responsible for who we are, the world will be a better place. No one knows you better than yourself. You can listen to 10,000 suggestions on what you should do and what is wrong with you, but that is not ‘your way’, that is their way.
If Emelgee, Alexander, and Wendy, and perhaps others who have no stepped up, find me aggressive, controlling, judgemental, wild, etc. then they don’t have to discuss with me any longer, they can tell me not to speak to them and so be it. I won’t debate with them if they don’t want it. Silence is the best answer.
The Daoists of the past were not the type to summarize someone’s behavioural patterns and traits and suggest what they should do and how they should act. They kept silent. Well, atleast this is how I feel about the issue.
FajinMay 14, 2006 at 10:09 pm #13905
Alexanders’ initial post to you was like a mirror. He was simply trying to indicate some facets about yourself and the way you were communicating with others which you may not have been aware of. And we all benefit from other peoples analysis of ourselves.
Why was he able to say so much to you about yourself? Because he said he was JUST LIKE YOU when he was your age.
It seemed you didn’t like it. Of course, a mirror can sometimes be the most uncomfortable thing to look at.
When you were advising people or exchanging information, you called it a discussion, but when Alexander pointed out a few thing to you, you then refered to it as a game. That looked disrepectful.
Later, he wasn’t suggesting to stop MA practice by sitting still and doing nothing. The purpose of the suggestion was to show you that non-action beautifully balances action, non-doing balances doing.
So by sitting still (inner smile, vipassana), the ‘negative ego’ can dissolve, revealing our virtuous self. This is especially helpfull after ‘action’ based practice ’cause the ‘negative ego’ can be cunning.
After practicing, it can say ‘I’m great, I’ve just practiced for 3 hours etc etc. This inadvertantly builds the ego, in spite of 3 hours effort to change/tranform it.
There is a zen saying “sitting silentlly, doing nothing, the spring comes and the grass grows by itself”
I don’t take this Koan to mean ‘stop all active practice’, but to compliment it with subsequent passive witnessing.
I don’t do as much stillness practice as I would prefer, but I’m aiming to strike balance.
Of course, I’m the first to say you and anyone DO WHAT YOU WANT.
The purpose of me writing this was just to kind of convey that Alexander/Wendy/Emeglee are not trying to piss you off or cast you as difficult, they might just be showing you some mirrors.
I’ve blabbered and rambled waayyyyyyyy too much.
Anyway, keep smiling. Best to you and everyone else.
mMay 14, 2006 at 10:47 pm #13907
Thank you for your honest expression of your feelings toward this.
My point is that everyone has their view and as Pietro was saying, that even though we think we are right and we think we know, we may still be wrong. So when others try to analyze you based on what they see, it is their view and they suggest based on their view. But self-view is what counts and we have to be aware of the fact that we can be blinded by our ego, so our view is distorted.
Even in Alexander’s case that I may be similar to him, I am different and I know myself better than he does. So, my belief is that everyone should be responsible for themselves and that means not needing other peoples suggestions based on yourself.
All knowledge ultimately means self-knowledge, and that includes knowing yourself. That’s the ultimate form of self-responsiblity, is knowing yourself and that is where we should all work on. If we need others to help us, it means that we cannot spot our own mistakes, and we do not know ourselves that well. So that is where we should work on.
Speaking of Zen, from what I have learned from Bagua, any moment can be stillness or Chan meditation. Wether you are doing something like martial arts or inner smile, you can still be in that space by living in THE NOW.
P.S. I think that the mirror should be looking at ourself, not someone who is similar to you.
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