April 11, 2007 at 1:19 pm #21928
Today is the day of our new lives, through the past weeks my partner started to see the benefits and the opportunities of this new partnership. The waves of sorrow and the inevitable idea of divorce past away the more he could let go his fixed ideas.
We are looking at the reactions of relatives and friends who look at it with little comprehension yet supporting us like we are depressed. Yet we are not, we are happy, happy for each other, for the new space. We try to explain how much happiness it gives us now that we found a mutual understanding. Yet one that will change and challenged through the next experiences without doubt. Although I look forward to the amount of creativity and flexibility we can generate. I feel like a child looking forward to this new puzzle, this new game, how to play it, listening and sensing the signs and signals on the path… so much aliveness in this game of life, so much unlimited expansion in contradiction with the fixed and stubborn limitations. I am not an anarchist, but I like to play, create and shape the clay… challenging my own limitations and ideas, facing my own contractions and smallness, by moving through the stuck parts of life, like a 25 year partnership… it was time to shake that tree, giving space to new leaves, yet keeping the good parts of that relationship and see how we can bring it to another level.
Tonight he will sleep in his new ‘home’, in his new bed, and I will have the whole bed for myself…Ahhh space!April 11, 2007 at 7:37 pm #21929
it seems how we relate to and embrace “space” is the funamental in any type of freedom.
Hope your quest for new oute rspace in your ex-marriage leads to opening new inner space.
I think we need to test both boundaries to unfold ourselves.
michaelApril 13, 2007 at 5:31 am #21931
It is not an ex-marriage -yet-; it is still a marriage, for several reasons we find it worth looking for a way to proceed and keep what we have and change what was no longer serving us as a couple AND as an individual. After living it on the new terms all this MIGHT end up in a final divorce. My personal aim is to keep our partnership but this time we changed the rules – I changed the rules. He was not prepared to follow those new rules and insisted on a divorce but through the past weeks he could see the benefits and could feel for himself the new space that is created and the changes that already working in him, so we will see what happens next.
He is still the man I like to grow old with, we are best friends, buddies but in order to grow personally I need space… seemingly a typical ‘crisis’ for 40+, the feeling of ‘I have to do it now otherwise it is too late’ is indeed a feeling I recognize. So maybe again this is just a biological/energetic strategy of our body.
As for my space in bed, as soon daddy is out of the bed the youngest (nearly 12) likes to sleep with mommy.
How can I deny that, because I know that this is will only last for another year maybe before she as well moves into new feelings and finds herself too mature to sleep close to her mother.April 13, 2007 at 8:39 pm #21933
Don’t feel responsible for our process, your PU story was just one of the little stones in the deep pond. One I deliberate pointed out to him to help the wind to become a storm. There is no other way for him to change, he is like a solid rock, so a lot of strength/pressure is needed to move him somehow. Your story was a catalyst, not the cause.
You see in my life as a nurse I’ve seen a lot of suffering and pain, something that shaped my believe that life is to be lived to the bottom. I want to look back and at least have the idea that I tried. I have no clue what that bottom is or looks like.
I don’t need to start taking drugs, alcohol or make a world tour for it, that is for sure. It is an internal journey where I want to explore every possible space.
A partnership can be very fulfilling and it did gave me so much, and still does but as well I need space to expand internally and for that I need external space and most possible experiences… In the past I had experiences but they felt darkened and gave me even more shadows to work through, because the lies and the cheating were putting darkness in my heart. Because of those past experiences I felt and knew that this was the shadow path and would never bring ‘the bottom’ closer…it clearly was bringing me even further away. The period I had to carry those lies within me were just internal horror, something I was clear I never wanted to take with me into the portal of death and rebirth.
The rules are just that:
We have the common ground, the nest, that is our common house and kids. We support each other and nurture the nest, there are no questions about that.
He lives in his own place during the week and during the weekend we spend time together in the common house as a family, we talk, exchange experiences if wanted or not.
We are free to experience what we feel is needed for our process.
Having this kind of openness and freedom I don’t want to eat the bar at once, I weigh and put a lot of self-reflection and virtue into it before using that freedom. I don’t take this gift light and honor it.
His problem with that was that there might be a change I end up in another bed. His words were clear: ‘You are mine’, better not having me at all (divorce scenario) than the emotional pain of ‘I am not good enough for her’. I was allowed to share spiritual or emotional but the line was: no sex. He felt threatened by the idea of me having sex with someone else. He felt attacked in his manhood.
We shared many hours on this issue… it became an interesting situation, he agreed on separation for the next year or maybe more, not a final divorce.
I could go on but I leave it up to you to ask if wanted…April 13, 2007 at 11:36 pm #21935
It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Indian Sarod player. He talked about a tradition in India of the parents to separate after the kids where raised to pursue spiritual practices. I divorced my job this year and enjoyed the extra time and space. I have found a new job at a gym. Instead of being surrounded by tvs I am surrounded by open hearted(equal open minded) female energy. My new manager just finished a thesis on body mind soul medicine. So I feel very at home. I hope to offer some classes later on as I feel a need to teach. I wish you the best. Big warm smile to you.April 14, 2007 at 7:11 am #21937
I encouraged my parents to live like that because their marriage crisis was so deep.
Instead of a divorce which would mean the end of the nest, I encouraged them to look for other partners and keep the good parts of their relationship.
They did ended up with both another partner, they kept the nest, their house, where they live together for 3 days and support each other, and they both take time with the other partner for the other days. There is no divorce, just another way of living.
It would be a perfect situation if my father would be able to stop controlling her when he has a bad mood and she is still touched by his words and moods. Although much much less than it was when they were a genuine couple. Because of the new situation my father became much more relaxed, happy, so the bad moods are just tiny compared with the past. But they don’t seem to be able to resolve that part, at least not yet.
Nevertheless I am very proud of my parents (60+) and I embrace their new partners, because they too agree on this situation, which I think is great.
It can give some ‘funny’ situations, when my father is driving to my mothers lover (60+) to take him to the hospital when she was sick, when two men are next to her bed and doctors ask who is the partner…
When there are family gatherings, they come as my parents, they don’t bring their partners… there is no jealousy of the other partners because they feel very much accepted by us and know that this is a nest thing, like they have their nest thing with their kin.
Every player has need for private time, and they have shared time.
My fathers girl friend (50+) (she is a widow and the niece of my mother) said she never wants my father to live with her permanently, she wants her own time and space… very wise indeed and I totally support her.
It is a kind of polygamous situation and they all seem to find their place in this ‘menage with four’.
Last night I had a similar conversation on polygamous life with my good friend, Jo (60+). He too is working towards this type of partnership with more than one, and we like to share our ideas about that yet our spiritual hearts are adding much more to it than my parents are doing… but no matter on what level we are, we seem to be able to live ‘different’ than we are told by the old rules…April 14, 2007 at 11:36 am #21939
I am sorry I can’t read your wonderful reply, I am sure you were adding something valuable.
I already am very clear on this subject, if he brings in -a without any doubt- a younger woman, I insist on the first wife position. In case I bring in another man, it will be an unworkable situation 😉
My own feeling is to keep the nest clear and transparant, one wife, one man and the kids. I don’t feel any need to start another commitment, going through the emotional stuff of another marriage. He has the same feeling, yet I think he would not mind to have two women in the house, but as long there are kids in the house, I will not allow that. First wife rights to use the veto 😉
That is why he can have his private place to do whatever he likes. As a mother, my children are the first priority, they feel really fine with it to have a women’s house and they feel very supported by their father although he is not around most of the time. They are strong, independent and open minded enough to deal with this. Even, the 16 year old daughter helped my partner to put aside his rigid ideas, to open up his mind to new paths. She is clearly the next generation…
I keep the space open to interact with others with the clear feeling I don’t want to create a second nest.
AND with the openness to be honest about it. Now that we moved in this phase it is just very clear that we free each other without hurting the other, because we don’t need to lie or cheat. I asked him NOT to tell me his adventures with other women, yet when I ask he does tell and till now I find his stories very ‘inspiring’,
a juicy afrodisicum…
At first he was amazed about my reaction, but it helped him to liberate himself further which will help him to increase his self esteem.
Because without self esteem this kind of relationship is doomed to fail.April 14, 2007 at 12:12 pm #21941
Beside the pain I witnessed in the hospitals, this poem is one other reason why I do what I do and feel what I feel…
This poem I cherish, it is always been a reminder to me to stay alert, it is one of these poems that stick with you and break open your stuck mind and heart…I wanted this for my wedding to hang on the wall, as young lovers we did not, but it was enclosed in my memory.
This is not a good translation from the original in my language into English, not as powerful but it gives an idea.
THE MARRIAGE of Willem Elsschot (1933)
When he perceived how mist of time
extinguished the sparks in his wife’s eyes,
enervated her cheeks, cleaved her forehead,
he turned himself away, devoured with regret.
He sweared and drawed his beard.
He stared at her, but couldn’t desire anymore.
He saw the greatest sin change into devil’s duty,
and how she looked up at him like a dying horse.
But she didn’t die, although his infernal mouth
sucked the marrow out of her bones, that still went on carrying her.
She didn’t dare to speak anymore, to ask or complain,
she shivered where she stood, but lived and kept healthy.
He thought I beat her to death and put the house on fire.
I have to wash the mould of my stiff feet,
and run through the fire and splash through the water
to another love in some other country.
But beating her to death he did not.
Because between dream and action,
there are laws and practical objections;
but also melancholy, that none can explain,
but comes at eve when people go to sleep.
So years went by: the children grew up,
and saw how the man who was their father,
was sitting by the fire, petrified and silent,
with a dangerous and godforgotten look in his eyes.April 14, 2007 at 12:21 pm #21943
Again, I hope you get allot out of your experiment. There is always an interesting balance of playing with the outer to support the inner and playing with the inner to support the outer(I think we all know that the inner is like 80% of it). Even though I am very empathic I try to stay out of peoples relationships. I am getting better at this as I get older. I still have a big mouth that gets me in trouble. 🙂 from my big mouth a big warm smile to your family.April 14, 2007 at 8:14 pm #21945
If it makes sense to you and your partner, go with it.
My initial reaction was “this sounds like a bad idea”,
but then after reading more of your threads and trying
to get a feel for your spirit, my opinion has changed.
I think my initial reaction was really due to projecting
myself into the situation, as it is something that I
know wouldn’t work for me. However, looked at objectively,
I can see how it could work for some people.
I think that if you do whatever *feels* right, you’ll probably
be OK. The only difficulty is being able to decide whether this
new arrangement is something that feels right or whether it is something
that you are trying to convince yourself (and your partner) is right–the
latter problematic, the former not so. If you listen to your inner
heart, you’ll know.
Thanks for sharing . . .
StevenApril 16, 2007 at 4:43 am #21947
Yes Steven, it is wise never to judge once personal situation and even when it turns out a bad idea we will find out and I let you know 😉
The divorce scenario made me unhappy because I felt we would miss an opportunity to find out about alternatives, I am not a black-white believer, my partner is. So in his world, there was either this or that, but one of the major strengths of my partner is that despite his huge amount of yang energy he keeps his ears and mind open. One of the reasons I appreciate him so much, otherwise it would be completely out of the question to keep this relationship going.
I learned, that if you think you know it all, you grow old and stiff… no matter your age. To be honest Steven and keep this in mind for the rest of your spiritual life: some spiritual people can be pretty boring, even stubborn in their wisdom… think about it 🙂
Exploring new ‘boundaries’ is only fruitful with a fair amount of inner earth, without that I would say keep an one plus one scenario and explore that and stretch that out in every direction, because that alone is worth ten thousands books.April 16, 2007 at 11:07 am #21949
Thanks for revealing so much Wendy. I had some major shifts…again…playing that edge and came home to my Total I Ching to hexagram 4. It isn’t a response to your state in the process but it offered a humbling balance for me to new exuberance which is actually protective not obstructive.
“You are immature and your awareness of the problem is dull and clouded. The way to deal with it is to accept being hidden in order to nurture growing awareness. Pull the covers over. Put the lid on.There is much concealed from you.
” You don’t really know what you are doing.But the beginnings are definitely there, even if you can’t yet see them. You didn’t ask for this problem. It asked for you and it belongs with you.
“Keep working on your problem. it will educate you.
“Don’t pretend you know it already. Accept being visibly confused. Work on things gradually, like a plant bearing fruit.”
You are both true warriors…and anarchists…BarryApril 16, 2007 at 4:54 pm #21951
That’s great Dog. I love hearing about gyms becoming places of substance and not just chasing our own tails. People are hungry and don’t know it. I hope you teach. barryApril 16, 2007 at 11:25 pm #21953
“I love hearing about gyms becoming places of substance and not just chasing our own tails.”
I’ve always thought the “substance” people got from going to gyms was from chasing OTHER people’s tails.
-SApril 17, 2007 at 1:01 am #21955
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