January 19, 2016 at 1:40 am #45767
I am a frequent meditator, and love to meditate on the Middle and Lower Dantians.
I feel that the energy from either of those Dantians goes up to the Upper Dantian. Therefore, is it really necessary to meditate on the Upper Dantian at all, since again, the energy from the lower dantians (plus calming breath meditation) seems to already nourish it?
email@example.comJanuary 19, 2016 at 6:52 am #45768
Speaking as an outsider who knows nothing …
When you say “meditate”, what exactly are you doing ? And when you say the upper gets nourished what exactly are you experiencing ?
What are the functions of the 3 dantien in the human existence ? Are they all the same ?
No, they are not.
The heart is quite different from the head and guts, each has its own function. Consider the functions.
One could similarly ask what the benefit would be if the head works properly, and if it was necessary to go to all the trouble for that to happen ?!
( I do hope that whatever you are doing, that it becomes permanent, meaning that 5 years after you stop cultivating, it is all still there )January 19, 2016 at 11:30 am #45770
What else do we do for the dantians, if not at least focus on them?
My point is, the upper dantian is located in the head, which is an area of much thought. There is much energy “used up” by all the thinking.
Therefore, instead of focusing on that area, wouldn’t the better meditation be one such as breath meditation, which calms the mind, to allow the ki to flow to the upper dantian naturally from the middle and lower?January 19, 2016 at 1:45 pm #45772
If you energy is used up by mechanical thoughts in your head, that is not “focussing on the upper dantien”. It is simply happening mechanically by itself, and most people are subject to it throughout their lives. Their mechanical thinking process does not occur through focussing on the upper dantien it happens by itself. Most humans are unaware that their head is talking all day every day.
Yes of course it is a complete waste of energy and breathing naturally into the belly brings the energy down, relieving you. And this is a typical practice in Zen and Taoism.
When you breathe in this way try to be completely natural without making any modifications whatsoever, so you end up breathing like a baby with a soft belly. When you have mastered this skill, an advanced aspect is to let go totally on the exhale, descending through the centre of the dantien and entering the void beyond it. But do the first part first, it takes very much time.
There are methods of meditation that work with the upper dantien, and that is a separate skill. Cultivating the upper dantien is a very difficult skill, the other 2 are much easier.
When you breathe into the belly you may feel energy distributing through your system, similarly to when you do the Triple Warmer. But this is not the same thing as cultivation, cultivation is a specific intensified practice.January 19, 2016 at 3:12 pm #45774
If you send energy to the heart, for instance, you can feel energy in the centre of your chest, in that dantien.
But … that is not the same thing as being the Divine Love.
For Divine Love to flower in the centre dantien it is not simply a question of energy being there … YOU have to become that energy and this requires a total change of your identity.
It cannot be done mechanically.
You can pump as much energy as you like in there, but it makes no difference until YOU are in there. Until you surrender the past and become the new state of energy.
And this requires a totally different approach to practice.
It is for that reason that the Qigong practices that I see are deficient, in my opinion, they pump energy around, draw it in from outside sources, which is great.
But there is not even much discussion about WHO is the energy, or how one even relates to the energy. Not even any awareness that something might be needed there.
It is trying to do it all mechanically, with practices.
But waking up is like your consciousness waking up, the very meaning of it is that it is not mechanical. It means the spark of Light awakens in your being.
What I describe is the true meaning of the word EMBODIMENT.
Embodiment does not mean “feeling energy in the body”.
Most human beings work on the basis of greed. They want this, they want that. Clinging to gold, or status (I am doctor don’t you know), or women, or cars.
And Qigong can be just an extension of that, clinging to energy. I want the whole Big Dipper energy inside ME !!!
But there is no aliveness in there, it is really the clutching-ego grasping again. Does anyone in Qigong circles even discuss the death of the ego ? Not at all, they talk about longevity, keeping it going. Like the endless ancestor practices, endless levels, don’t you see ? You can keep going for ever this way. And that is what the ego wants, because it is false, it is threatened, it never wants to stop.
Waking up is different, it is a subtle small thing. Like when you sit on your grand-mothers lap and you feel a connection, something is sparked inside. It is a quiet thing.January 19, 2016 at 11:01 pm #45776
Well, since you mentioned the Heart and the Divine, let me ask this, then:
Ramana Maharshi said that the Heart Center is by far the most important center in the body, the aggregate of all centers, including navel, head and others. The Heart Center, to me, is very similar to the Middle Dantian.
With Ramana Maharshi being a very spiritual, Advaitic saint, he was then speaking from the perspective of Divine Spirit, rather than from a qi/energy perspective.
Based on what you’ve stated, then, is it not a matter of what our motivation for practice is? If it is purely spiritual, Divine Consciousness, then perhaps the Heart Center, similar to the Middle Dantien, should be our main meditation.
If the motivation is energy, then perhaps the Hara or Lower Dantien should be our priority. At least, that is the conclusion I seem to arrive at, based on people’s motivations.January 19, 2016 at 11:04 pm #45778
What I’m saying is, in many cultures, even in addition to Ramana Maharshi’s teachings, the Heart is considered to the the Seat of Consciousness. So perhaps then, if peoples motivations are less on the spiritual, and more on energy and longevity, then the lower dantian, and how it corresponds to all the dantians, is probbly much more the priority than the heart center alone.January 20, 2016 at 12:45 am #45780
Before I answer, I would like to ask you how many years you have been practising, specifically what you have been doing, what have you changed, what have you experienced, who you have followed. Then I can give a specific answer.January 20, 2016 at 8:08 am #45782
As I understand it, the Upper Dantien is an integral component of the Daoist alchemical process in that it’s the cauldron within which Shen is refined into Dao. This is, apparently, the process of “Lianshen huaxu”. So, from the perspective of completing the Daoist alchemical path, meditation upon the upper cauldron would appear to be rather important!
I’m simply offering what I understand to be the theory as I have not one iota of experience re this practice.
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