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Hi Max:
Yes, I think I know him. I think I did push hands with him once. Interesting man.
Do you do their fast set? I learned the Maser Dong’s version, some beleive Yang and Dong created the fast set together, I dont know for sure. Dong was with Yang Cheng Fu until he died, one of his closest students and quite famous, not many know the fast set. I like it, good cardio too. I cannot find any reference to the fast set before Yang Cheng Fu.
bagua
Hi Max,
Just another question if you don’t mind. I’m curious to know if what he’s teaching is any different from Erle Montaigue’s Taiji. If so, can you tell me what please.
Thank you,
FajinHi Singing Ocean,
Coming from Erle Montaigue, he’s seen many of these Taiji masters who claim to be able to do this, but he’s come across fakes. I guess this teacher is not a fake if Max says so. But wether it is effective against a practioner who cannot be uprooted so easily, like the man in the video, is another thing. The real power in Taiji comes from fajin, not moving people with weak root from far distances.
Fajin
Hi Fajin:
Its hard to know if we are talking about the same thing. Yang Lu Chan, as know learned Chen Style, I dont know if what you are referrring to is a variation of that or the from Yang Cheng Fu. Maybe someone can find some of those video clips on the internet with the fast set and we can look at it, those clips are aweswome.
I sat Rene Nevarro do the fast set, he learned from the man in Boston Max referred to, the movements are slighly different but the idea is the same.
bagua
Hi Bagua,
The history of Taiji in the Chen village is pretty interesting, there are many theories. It is certain that Jiang-Fa made his way from Wudang to Chen village, otherwise 13 postures, which originated from San Feng, would be completely unknown to both Yang and Chen styles. And besides that, Chen Wangting had knowledge of Taoist nei dan practices.
Yang Lu Chan had to have other influences that the Chen village was not priviliedged with. He created the Yang Lu Chan form and Yang Cheng Fu created the slow long form so people could practice that instead of the Old Yang Style created by Yang Lu Chan. Yang Cheng Fu never created any new fast forms, so all the fast forms in the Yang Style were derived from the Old Yang Style created by Yang Lu Chan.
Here’s the link to find out the Yang Lu Chan form, and there are many other useful books and videos free on that link that you may enjoy. Erle was my first Taiji teacher.
Hi Fajin:
thanks for the link, they are so cool.
The fast set by erle is “Tung’s fast set”, it looks like what I learned but not enough on it, any dvd of it for sale? My teacher studied directly with Dong, Yi Qi (wrong spelling, sorry) in hong kong when he went there after the death of yang cheng fu. I was told Dong and Yang worked on the fast set together for years refining it.
its hard to know what really happened.
After watching lots of styles, i like wing chun best for empty hands and chi sau is a natural extension from push hands.
thanks,
bagua
Hi Bagua,
Glad you like the link!
I have the whole set of Erle’s DVD’s on the Yang Lu Chan fast form, but that’s back in Canada. I would send them over to you right away if I was there 🙁
Go to http://www.taijiworld.com and you’ll find what you need there if you’re interested in his DVD’s.
It is hard to know what really did happen as there are so many theories, but Chen style resembles the Shaolin Cannon Fist and they used fajin while Yang Lu Chan was still a kid, so he must have incorporated fajin into his Yang Style, which is why I am pretty sure that Yang Lu Chan DID create the fast set.
As for Yang Cheng Fu, I really don’t know what he did, wether he refined it or not. If your teacher says so, he could have made some changes and there are variations like the one Rene Navarro performed. And there could still be the original way Lu Chan left it.
>>After watching lots of styles, i like wing chun best for empty hands and chi sau is a natural extension from push hands.<<
*Oh boy! Wait until I introduce you to Wudang Gong Fu!
Smiles,
FajinHi Max,
Thanks for the info. It looks like your teacher is definately teaching genuine Old Yang Style. The Yang Lu Chan fast form Erle teaches does have low stances like you mentioned places 100% on one foot.
I am taking a break from the forum but will be back around New Year’s. We’ll talk more IMA then.
Fajin
Hi Max,
You know it’s interesting that you brought this point up. Something I wanted to say about it.
>>To me, long form is like a moving meditation because it’s very slow (takes about 20 minutes to do) and you have to keep your mind one-pointed on the form or you will get lost.<<
*For this whole time that I've been practicing Taiji, I've been doing a moving Vipassana meditation where I just concentrate on the subtlest of motions in each and every part of my body following Zhang, Sanfeng's advice that the whole body must be threaded together as one. That's the key in reaching a Song state.
The movements are expressed internally and just to be memorized for external sake so that you can hold concentration internally as a one-pointed meditation like Zen. I've been carrying this one-pointedness over from Tibetan martial arts too, but had no idea that it was meditation in movement. 🙂
'Till New Years,
FajinHi Singing Ocean,
In my most honest opinion, Master Nan is teaching REAL Buddhism and Michael is teaching REAL Taoism. They are both great at what they do but each has a distorted view of what the inverse path is. I mean Nan has a distorted view about Taoism and Michael has a distorted view about Buddhism.
Just because I’m implementing Buddhist meditation into my regimen, it doesn’t mean that I’ve joined some anti-Healing Dao group, I still respect Michael, but disagree with him on what Buddhism is/is not and think that they should both be integrated together as one. Buddhism within Daoism, Daoism within Buddhism as an inseparable whole.
My main Buddhist meditation is derived from Japanese Zen called shikantaza meaning “just sitting”. A.K.A. sitting in forgetfulness. I adhere only to Master Nan’s wisdom and his guidance throughout thhis constant process.
Hope that doesn’t give you a distorted view about me,
FajinYes, but when I see that someone has shared their’s, I think I am entitled to share mine and we can complement each other in healthy debate.
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