Home › Forum Online Discussion › General › Visualization vs. Actualization — And Empty Semantics
- This topic has 24 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 4 months ago by thelerner.
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July 19, 2005 at 6:42 pm #6500oldhParticipant
Satan.
Why not then be good to us and share what you know for free? Give us the shortcuts…
that is at least what is good with “commercial Taoism” as you call: Something is shared… obscure Taoism does only share with a few, or telling you you’ve got to find your own way to the truth…
so…
July 19, 2005 at 9:10 pm #6502WilberKEMAIMemberPenny for your thoughts…
July 19, 2005 at 9:38 pm #6504oldhParticipantTell us about the practices you utilize, which would make it obsolete to buy any other stuff. Share them in detail. Give the steps… share all you know. Just share. Write an ebook full of your knowledge… charge as little as you can…
am I asking too much?
July 20, 2005 at 2:48 pm #6506Michael WinnKeymasterYour process is essentially correct; the only thing I would add is communicate the process to the five shen, and invite them to collectively do the practice for you, rather than thinking the visual command is sufficient. “You” are speaking from the vantage of your core self beyond/deeper than them – a temporary approximation of your inner observer/original Spirit given form. You give them a vessel to concentrate in, whether it is a pearl or bagua, so they understand your desire/request.
Color,sound, rhythm/breath, feeling, intention/shape – these are the five attributes covered in the Fundamentals for shaping the healing sounds using the five shen. You are reversing the flow of chi in fusion from the healing sounds, and need to give that instruction to all five phases simultaneously. If you didn’t take the fundamentals, you missed that training. Its ultimat4ely the whole point of grasping the nature of five phases and the activity of the five shen.
If you only activate one or two of them, i.e. the capacity to create a color and shape, you will only get a partial result. When you tap all five, you get a collective result that will override all resistance that is hidden within you. Then your power to change is maximized many times over a partial “head command” trying to boss the chi around, and encountering unconscioius resistance.
michael
July 20, 2005 at 6:46 pm #6508spyrelxParticipantThanks.
July 21, 2005 at 4:34 am #6510Simon V.ParticipantReminds me of the Silva mind control method; first you have to learn how to reliably get to your ‘level’ (alpha) before any of the commands (‘visualizations’) will ‘actually’ work.
I also read a hindu yogi say people were always saying to him that mantras and such didn’t work for them and that was because, he said, they weren’t ‘going deep enough’, so it was like they were throwing dozens of stones into the pond every second instead of letting one stone fall in a pond you’ve allowed to become clear, and being patient while its ripples have their pristine effect.
Simon
July 21, 2005 at 12:45 pm #6512DylanParticipantIn Ken Cohen’s book he describes the taoists view of imagination as the primal ground of the universe. This original pristine imagination is the true source of all alchemical archetypes and symbols. This makes sense to me as I can’t imagine anyone inventing a complicated image or symbol just to manipulate the chi. The images in their original form ARE the chi.
Michael has spoken of visionary experiences such as cauldrons and pakua symbols. These seem to have occured spontaneously and are experienced as real. Maybe he used guided visualisations to get the ball rolling, but there comes a point where too many head instructions interfere with the experience of the language of nature.
What I’m trying to say is that human imagination is really a reflection/refraction/echo of the universal imagination and needs to periodically return to this source in order to prevent distortion or disconnection. This transmission is going on all the time but is clouded by our personal junk and alchemy is about dissolving this junk.
If all parts of the body/universe think and are aware then that would seem to imply that they all play a role in imagination and deserve a voice as well as the head.Dylan
ps regarding the marketing of Alchemy
Alchemy and Chi Kung have NEVER been free, in the past the student had to give something back for the knowledge acquired maybe a long period of service, accomodating the teacher etc. Nowadays money is the payment. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, money represents many peoples invested effort and sweat and in this case a worthy exchange. Some people have more money than others but those who have to sweat that much more will appreciate the teachings that much more. Information is freely available on the internet but to make use of it is another thing.
Also if you move to fast too soon with Chi Kung you tend pay another price.
So I see nothing wrong in Michael charging for his lifes work enough to make a living.
I’m an English teacher and get paid for teaching English, English is free too but only a few can learn it alone and if I made a tape I would damn well charge for it too.
So enough from spiritual parasites wanting everything for nothing!Dylan
July 23, 2005 at 12:55 pm #6514thelernerParticipantShouldn’t every meditation, no matter how complex or visual have a yin phase. Where after yan part is over you silently listen. You sit or stand and enjoy the after effects, letting it go, savouring it, letting it penetrate deeper without whatever X factor our minds try to apply to it.
Emptiness is great. We all want quieter minds. But its nice to have mind body and spirit on the same page, moving in the same direction, and not leave one aspect behind.
Peace
Michael
July 23, 2005 at 4:32 pm #6516Hoo HaParticipantAbsolutely! It’s good to get mind body and spirit singing from the same hymn sheet so the yin phase at the start and end can be relatively modest like centering/gathering oneself or grandiose like communing with a sense of the absolute. It depends on the aim and scope and tradition of the meditation but starting from stillness and/or ending in stillness seem to be vital components.
Rex
July 24, 2005 at 12:03 am #6518thelernerParticipantIn Aikido, we would sometimes use Ki as meaning Intent. Before meditation have a strong intent. Then drop it, and just do, then drop the doing, and just be.
Peace
Michael
Perhaps Sinatra summed it up best w/ Doo be do be do
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