May 6, 2010 at 1:44 pm #34182
We are ALL children of God.
Each of us already contains the spark within.
We don’t need to go looking for it through outside
sources . . . through drugs, through media, through gurus,
what have you. It’s all here. Right here! Right now!
Seek and you shall NOT find. There is nothing to find.
It is already here. You already have it. Just look within.
All of the tools, alchemy, etc. just allow us to get
into a deeper and deeper communication with the infinite,
to connect and embody that frequency more so. But we
already have it.
We are ALL children of God.
We are NOT flawed. We are designed exactly as we were meant
to be designed by the lifeforce. A unique and wonderful
loving being. We are NOT flawed. There is no such thing
as “original sin”. That somehow we are born deficient; that
we somehow come up short. We were NOT mistakes. Every
single one of us is a gift from the universe, and we are
EXACTLY as we were meant to be. The only original sin
was the concept of it.
We are ALL children of God.
No ONE person is better than another. No ONE person is
worse than another. If we are all children of GOD, how
can we be better or worse than another?
The small child, say 2-years old, being close to the
original spirit knows this well. The small child does not
know the difference between someone who has a PhD, someone
who is rich, and someone who is homeless on the street.
To the child, all are loving children of God, one in the same
as the child. When the child with a big smile on his face,
waves and shouts “HI” to a homeless person, it is the mother
who “corrects” the child and says “don’t talk to that man”.
The child does not put one person above another. The child
treats everyone the same, each person has the same worth.
It is society that repeatedly indoctrinates the false concept
that some people are worth more than others. Certain people
are NOT worth more than others; this is a false construct.
EVERYONE IS A CHILD OF GOD. EVERYONE. We are ALL the same.
We are all in it TOGETHER. Each person making their
way through life, trying the best they can. Each person wanting
to feel love and to be loved. Each person unique, and each
person deserving of love. Each person special. Each person
worthy. Each person carrying the divine within.
We are ALL children of God.
The next time you see someone you dislike, the next time
you see someone you think you are better than, the next time
those feelings come up within you, think to yourself “Just
like me, that person wants to feel love. Just like me, that
person is deserving of love. Just like me, that person is
special and unique. Just like me, that person carries the
Now for some personal issues relating to some recent
posts of mine that have caused a stir.
First, the drug thing:
Yes, I do not believe that drugs lead to the truth.
It is adding something that is not you from the outside,
and clouds the ability to see the God within.
I don’t think that I should be NOT allowed to have that opinion.
Or be forced to take a wishy-washy approach of “maybe it’s OK
for some people”, when I sincerely do not believe that.
If anything, I try to present myself honestly, and not
just say what I think people want to hear.
Secondly, the “superiors respect” thing:
I’m not going to just bow down to someone because they
tell me they are a master. I consider myself to be
no better, no worse than anyone else. Just because someone
has 30 years + of experience etc., does not mean that my
opinion has no value, that I have nothing to offer. Same
thing conversely. We are ALL children of God. All unique.
All in it together. We should be able to WITH JUBILATION
share what we know, and act collectively as a team effort
working together toward a common goal. Not be mired
in petty rivalry, superiority, etc. I try to treat everyone
the same, regardless of “stature” in relation to myself.
Some (maybe a lot) may disagree with this approach, but
I think I should be allowed to have that opinion. I want
to share the opinion of the 2-year old child. We are all
the same. Children of God.
Unfortunately, it has come to my attention that such
perspectives are unwelcome on this list. That is fine, and
I respect that. As such, I am taking an extended break from
the forum so that I do not annoy anyone else further.
Peace and love to you all,
StevenMay 6, 2010 at 2:43 pm #34183
I really resonate with your post.
If some long term practicioners are still deluded ( greed, infatuation, jealousy, etc..) it may be that tools of inner alchemy are powerful to cultivate life force and lead to some great achievement in this respect but are quite limited to achieve a really virtuous life. Although it is not the tendency in this forum (or in some other well-known) to rely on historical daoism ( always suspected to flirt with Buddhism in its moral aspect), there may be some reason other than secrecy and its domination issue, why alchemy was studied AFTER some long purification period (precepts and zuowang).
I relate this to your post: not everyone – apparently even in the long term practioners group- is really in the childlike state of looking at every other human being with the eyes of Love.
In this regard, and because I am only at the very beginning of the Way, I am quite sad (to say the least) to see that the same behaviors as those in the profane world can be found in so called spiritual circles. Where are the living examples (I really mean *examples* here, not gurus) of zenren/true human??
So the bottom line for me is that I am no longer impressed by the promises of any so called spiritual tool because, in the end, sad but true, a promise only engage those who believe in it.
If I have the power to cut off a head by a stroke of my index, to travel of higher planes, to have a radiant health and tremendous sexual power but don’t have Love, what’s the point of them??? They are just toys for the ego.
HuangdiMay 6, 2010 at 10:11 pm #34185
It sounds that you are upset about the fact that people are not listening to you as you want them to listen to you. That is life and that is why we exchange ideas and feelings about the process.
Everyone agrees we are all children of God but life is teaching us that the path and the truth are not necessarily on the same map. We see a map of how the ideal could be and then we have the trial and error of how we get there. And that is what we all are doing here.
You say you should be allowed to have an opinion but so am I and all the others too. That we are not cheering along the path of your opinions does not mean we do not love you Steven.
I speak for all as I say that I trully think you have been a tremendous force on this forum for the past time.
But you have to respect that we too have an opinion that is not always aligned with yours because of our own life experiences that are different than yours and so we have different takes on different aspects of the path we walk towards the truth.
If the map of truth was so simple to live then why are we dealing with all the crap along the way?
You make it sound all very simple: we are children of god, we are love, yes we are, and yes we are all very much trying to live that truth but we have limitations through our bodies, memories, ancestral patterns and collective pain and suffering that we need to transform through hard work.
Even if we work hard and sincerely to get our own life in place, we still have work to do for our ancestors, we still have work to do for the collective… we are never finished, never, even the immortals and higher beings are very involved to help the collective through the individual back to the collective to make changes. They are unstoppable in their work for balance.
Alas, the individual is often limited to ‘understand’ the true message of their work and think they are chosen to be some kind of ‘special’ person, whenever we start to believe that and play that ‘special person life’ we screw up the message. We are NEVER Higher Masters, the only master we can be is that of our own thoughts and feelings, if we master that we are trully a Master of our own body and self.
In my opinion that is the closest we get to be a Master.
Never give up Steven, never… a true spiritual fool never gives up… keep pushing the boundaries, just be aware that you get pushed back, it is the very simple rule of action and reaction, but know that in between that dynamic play there is Love Steven… always Love…May 7, 2010 at 12:50 am #34187
A brief response before I become silent to clarify a few things:
1. I’m not upset:
As I said at the end of the post, I respect other people’s opinions.
Ultimately I have no vested interest in someone believing one thing vs.
another. As long as their opinions come from a place of personal
experience, they are fine with me.
2. I’m not “chosen” or think that I am or whatever you said/implied:
I’ve said many times now that I’m a beginner; a life-long beginner.
3. The one thing I’ve not done on this list is make posts to you
or others saying effectively “you shouldn’t make posts like this”.
Argue about ideas yes, but not that. That’s like a parent coming
down and saying “you’re not allowed to have an opinion”.
Example: When Dog first made his first posts to Eric, for instance
his post “healing light”, he was quite rude to Eric, sort of attacking
his character. Implying he had a dirty inner nature and that he was dork.
I never attacked Eric’s character; the closest I came was when I presented
the rumor I heard, and that was only to allow him to set the record straight
(and I prefaced it with a caveat to not take it personally). Yet, Dog
got no negative responses from his post. Yet when I attack certain ideas,
not someone’s character, I’m called disrespectful. Or if I’m
passionate about something, I’m called a crusader and trying to force
others to my viewpoint. That seems inconsistent to me, but that’s just me.
But upset is not what I am.
If someone tells me “you are annoying me”, then my response is OK, fair
enough, my apologies, I’ll leave you alone. Then I go and do other things,
having no ill will, no resentment–it’s just giving other people
their own space and respecting it.
I have no interest in taking people out of an emotionally happy place.
Once it has become clear that debate has made some feel annoyed, then
it is time to step away.
Love and qi to all,
StevenMay 7, 2010 at 10:31 am #34189
We all have our own style of posting and our personality that comes with it.
Are you considering my postings as parental? That is fine, so you feel that is my style. As a mother of three teenagers, being a spiritual teacher and therapist for over 15 years my style is more parental, yes. That is how I am in real life and that is how I am on the forum. I am not any different in the real world as I am on this board.
We post according to who we are and how we are in the world right now, and that might change over time when we experience other things, or not. As long we stay true to who we are I think any posting is valuable.
You have every right to react on postings and to make your point why you write these things as you do according to who you are, and so do we. Like you said yourself : that’s just me.
And when I tell you should talk differently, I say that from a certain point of view, which is not the Truth, it is a biased opinion coming from certain feelings inside me, which I trully explored and I openly dedicated a lot of time to share that on the board, which you hopefully remember.
We all take time and energy to read the postings and we all put effort in posting according to our knowledge, experience or feelings. The fact that we put that energy in it means we care somehow. When we don’t longer care we stop being here. I did that several times through the past years. And that is fine too.
It is all your free choice.
I never said YOU were acting like a chosen one. Actually I was thinking about myself in the first place (and secondary thinking about some other people) when I received things and had to find out how to deal with it, how easy we fall into the pit of pride. The challenge is, the more you grow spiritually, the more you enter the dimensions, the more wisdom and knowledge you gather through that process, the more virtue we have to cultivate to understand the temptations of pride. It has been one of my major understandings. And an ongoing process of humbleness.
Within the Western Daoist community we find strong individuals with strong ego’s. Alchemy is about ‘making it’ so it takes strong willed people to be able to ‘make it’ otherwise you are not attracted to this path, you will chose other spiritual paths that are less will oriented.
That is why we keep seeing these strong partially unbalanced reactions in teachers. The balance between the strong will/ego and the acceptance of what IS, is a difficult excersise. But that is another story…May 7, 2010 at 12:53 pm #34191
And Steven, the real reason for Chris his posting was to kindly warn you for something.
Chris felt more strongly attracted to post to you to try to give you a warning for where you were going in your postings with Yudelove.
That is the most I want to share about it but believe me that Chris was doing you a favor.May 7, 2010 at 1:09 pm #34193
I think you should reconsider your decision to take an extended break from this forum. I have just recently returned here and looking over the posting I can see that you have been very active here and that it has been an important part of your life. But this is your decision. You are your own Master.
I certainly did not ask you to bow down or that you are not entitled to your opinions. All I objected to was your confrontational and demanding manner and your lack of respect. Just as you believe that you are entitled to love, so others believe they are entitled to respect, no matter who they are. It is better to approach with a rose than a sledge hammer.
You will not see the truth of the Integral Way until you have learned to eliminate your ego. This is true for everyone and it is certainly not easy, but if you came here and are sincere about following the Way, then it is the only game in town.
There is no one way to the truth. There is no one practice that will set you free. There is no one religion that has all the answers. These are all dualities that separate you from the oneness of the Way.
In terms of our ultimate source, creation, we are no different and yet we are not the same. Hard work, discipline, respect, understanding and compassion are all necessary to connect you to the ultimate subtle truth of the Way.
Don’t be petulant, come back and realize your oneness with everybody.
May the Blessings of Kwan Yin Protect You and Guide You on the Way,
Eric YudeloveMay 7, 2010 at 4:07 pm #34195
I just wanted to say quickly in passing that:
1. Any comments I made about my feeling of the “master” concept
were general feelings, and were in no way meant as commentary
to what I think of you. I meant no disrespect to you personally.
In fact, personally I’ve never met you and as I’ve said before
I’m happy to see you come out of hermiting and add your voice to
the choir. Again, there was no disrespect toward you intended!!
2. When you were discussing your overlooked practice of the tip
of the nose, my comments about Michael’s micro practices were just
to present other practices in the same vein that are overlooked
by the community–in the same way that you describe some of yours
are overlooked. i.e. my comments were about the practices.
I in no way meant to imply that I think Michael’s stuff is better
than yours, or that Michael is better than you or whatever.
I really really didn’t. If that was what you felt, then I
greatly apologize! I’ve never done your practices before,
so I can’t evaluate them (even if I wanted to); and if anything,
hopefully you saw that my initial questioning (before things
got heated) was of curious interest. I’m interested in all
what can be shared, yours additionally.
3. All I’m really interested in, is in talking about the practices.
Not making judgements about this person being better than that
person etc. (which is ultimately the main reason for my prior
comments about master-disciple etc. to tell the truth here)
4. Truth be known, I think you are highly accomplished! To be
doing esoteric practices for as many years as you have is incredible.
You know a wealth of information from your many years of experience,
and that’s definitely worth comment. The fact that you have two
comprehensive “textbooks” on the material from your system
is incredible. Writing such things, I can only imagine the amount
of time and labor involved in doing that. I’m presently writing
my own book (math, and separate from dissertation) and it
such an incredible undertaking. It’s like giving birth! And
you’ve done it twice! I think that’s astounding, and commend
you on your effort.
5. Usually roses are better than sledgehammers and/or being
confrontational, but sometimes to move a large couch you need
to apply a large force. ^_^ Of course, sometimes the people
involved can take it too far and then all involved get hernias
and strained backs. At that point, it’s time to stop and let
the body heal; you know what I mean? 🙂 All joking and
light-hearted humor aside, I think it time to be silent for
a little bit … if for no other reason than to let this
particular conversation die off and let emotions simmer down.
We can all play another day, hopefully.
Peace and love,
StevenMay 12, 2010 at 5:02 pm #34197
You wrote, “You will not see the truth of the Integral Way until you have learned to eliminate your ego.”. Do you mean the total dissolution or only becoming a non-obsessive/excessive ego? Would you care to elucidate more. Some say the ego is an integral part of the human being and shouldn’t be eliminated. Can you answer three questions and they are:
1. Why do we have an ego or where did it come from?
2. Why get rid of it?
3. What is the method to get rid of it?
Another question using a Taoist axiom, a human is a microcosm of the universe, maybe the universe has an ego too?
Happy moment in time,May 12, 2010 at 7:46 pm #34199
I left the forum for a bit and see whats happened!
I just happen to know about the system referenced about beginning with breathing and focus on the tip of nose, and how they view their entire process and what manifests is not in tune with some of the views on alchemy on this site and that method is part of other Qi Gong, including different versions of healing sounds, Yi Jing Jing, Xi Sui Jing and if one looks closely, something that looks alot like what is now called Cosmic Qi Gong or Buddha Palm.
Bagua is back!!!May 14, 2010 at 6:30 pm #34201
How does their system of alchemy differ from views on alchemy here?May 15, 2010 at 1:50 am #34203
They include Buddhist theories.
Google the name of the system Eric stated, you will find much.May 17, 2010 at 12:57 pm #34205
If you equate God with the Tao, then God has no ego.
If you have some other perception of God then it might have an ego, especially if it thinks it is separate from Tao.
In the most basic terms, your mind and your ego are the same. When you are born, your mind is a clear slate and your ego has yet to be formed. As you grow, you learn things from many different sources, you learn to see and understand in a certain way. With the influx of information from your parents, your teachers and friends,etc. your view of the world is formed. This is what you will normally think of as yourself, your ego. It is the same as the mind because ego cannot exist without a mind. The mind perceives all your sensory inputs and interprets them. It begins to act as your personal filter so that the world fits in to your personal description of the world. It rejects that which doesn’t fit in with it’s view. It can become judgmental, discriminatory, feel superior or feel inferior, etc. Once it does, this pattern will generally be with you for life.
Virtually all spiritual or mystical system aim toward stopping the chatter in your mind. You’ve heard terms like the mind being empty or void. This is the state reached where the mind has been silenced and the ego thus eliminated as a result of the silence. Ego can only operate when the mind is thinking or chattering away.
Take away all the talk and thoughts in your mind(Heavenly Heart), and your ego dissolves.
When this happens your perception of the world totally changes. You are no longer limited by the notion of who and what you are. You look through your eyes you see what is there, the mind does no interpreting or discribing of what you are seeing.
Concepts of yourself as being a separate entity from everything around you dissolve.
Before you were born, there was the imprint of who you really are( you would probably see this as being in your DNA). Taoists call this your Essential(True) Nature. This is the person who you could have been if not for the personal description(ego) you have built for yourself over the years. Strip away the ego and you can discover your Essential Nature. Kill the ego and you will find that you are part of the Tao, not separate from it. You and the source of Eternal Life are the same.
These are the highest goals of Taoism, to unite one’s Essential Nature with Eternal Life. This is to achieve immortality.
There are many practices to eliminate the ego(mind). It is a battle. The ego will fight, often in unforseen ways, to maintain it’s existance. It is the part of you that is afraid to die. But no matter where your life takes you, when you die your ego dies-it is just a creation of your mind.
I have some good techniques for quieting the mind in weeks 1 & 2 of “100 Days” and I have a thread of posts on Taobums.com called Beginning Taoist Practices. If you go there just type in yudelove and click on it, then scroll down.
My personal favorite tool for these practices is a quartz crystal ball.These were often used by Taoists, especially to learn concentration, focus and strengthening the eyes, staring until your eyes tear is a traditional Taoist technique for curing latent illness in the bodyMay 17, 2010 at 8:07 pm #34207
A few questions.
When you are born, your mind is a clear slate and your ego has yet to be formed.
How do you know this?
Before you were born, there was the imprint of who you really are( you would probably see this as being in your DNA). Taoists call this your Essential(True) Nature. This is the person who you could have been if not for the personal description(ego) you have built for yourself over the years.
Strip away the ego and you can discover your Essential Nature. Kill the ego and you will find that you are part of the Tao, not separate from it. You and the source of Eternal Life are the same. These are the highest goals of Taoism, to unite one’s Essential Nature with Eternal Life. This is to achieve immortality.
There are many practices to eliminate the ego(mind).
Is this the way to immortality, is anything more necessary? Is doing all the formulas required to realize this or can just the basics do it for some?
baguaMay 18, 2010 at 1:24 pm #34209
One thing that I was thinking about after seeing a youtube film of zen buddist monks living as hermits. In there case they didn´t seek immortality but nirvana I think.
But that is not of importance for my question that I put in a taoistic vocabulary, but it should be as important question for any practioners ultimate goal.
Is wanting immortality a goal trapped in the ego itself?
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