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Sometimes seperation is necessary to get a better understanding of the situation. We both feel it is a wise step and one that is fun as well. After so many years it brings new light, new ways of pleasing each other, and above all we are best friends. We only want to bring the best, the very best to the surface. Without him I was not who I am today, and vice versa and still we support each other growth no matter what sacrifices we sometimes bring. This is so worthy… he is worthy, I am worthy, and we admire each other for the wisdom and the strength we carry.
Plato wrote> “Release” begins the moment you realize that what you are holding onto is fundamentally devoid of meaning–empty.”
I think release can also occur through realizing that, fundamentally, both grasping and resisting are futile.
Hmmmm…
Actually release probably just happens and then we attach our metaphysics to it.
But I brought up this other distinction because I do think you can fully release something that you intellectually find very meaningful and still emotionally feel strongly towards. Releasing IME is pre-cognitive and even pre-emotional although not devoid of either.
P> I do not understand what transforming jing into light in the planetary core means. >
K> You’re mentioning a (somewhat twisted) late stage phenomena. >
What I meant was your description was somewhat twisted, not the phenomena itself. 🙂
My sense is not so much that you send your jing into the earth’s core.. Its more that (after gaining familiarity with this process in your own deep-centers), you feel that the same process is going on with the earth, and there is some hook-up and sharing the lends a boost to your own process.
I feel best when each of my own centers’ energy is its own. My heart is my heart’s, my jing is “owned” and stabalized by my lower center, and so on. There is some sharing, and that helps.. a lot .. but the sharing doesn’t (or shouldn’t) occur to the extent that it erodes a single center’s base, stability as itself.
Next, a a few more paragraphs.
And, a plug. 🙂
These can all be found in the “Extraordinary Vessels” section of Alchemical Taoism.com.Hmmm… but then there would be people who work so hard to become what they despise, beautifying or uglifying, all the while trying to keep track of which was the one they hated more (they have since become very convoluted) and perhaps all this in order to avoid some emotional problem and cultivate a belief that they are doing something spiritual when really they are full of fear and shame.
:p
Your technique reminds me of some of Crowley’s, mainly used to “destroy social accretions”, which is really just a way to face and release addiction for approval, both from yourself and others.
Ok well then tell me what you do with thoughts and attachments in this model. What is the specific process? When I am filled with hate or lust how do I deal with it based on what is on that page on your website?
How can you fully release something and still feel strong emotionally towards it? I mean, the word “fully” throws me. I agree with you that you can release something and still have strong feelings for it, but “fully?” You are always at the risk of it returning and then what do you do with it?
Hmmm… I think because some things will always be out of your control.
This is a morbid example, but, for example, imagine a Zen master being severely beaten with a stick all the while remaining “in zen”. It’s possible right? But his body feels the pain fully and the hardwired survival mechanisms are also likely causing thoughts to arise of how he might escape this fate.
Strong feelings, strong thoughts … these are also just phenomena that arise and pass like clouds, right? But something/no-thing is at their core and is also their container. This is where the full release is IMO. It’s pre/supra cognitive/emotional/physiological.
P> Ok well then tell me what you do with thoughts and attachments in this model. What is the specific process? >
The specific process is what is outlined in the essay. The process gains power, with practice and time, based on the bindu-Vast Light connection. As that becomes more realized, your energies get more readily drawn into the deep-center. That is, the power of Vast Light is lended to your own deep-center, so that draws your sense energies (and the thoughts that are riding on them) to the deep-center: your own energies culminate in Openness through the deep-center. Openness lends power to your deep-center through natural connection, and the whole cycle gains momentum naturally.
I’m using the term “sense energies” to mean not just eyes etc, but the various prana flowing through a body, by which consciousness “feels”, and tries to manipulate “external” experience / events.
As well as the power of the bindu-Vast Light connection, jing begins to pool as light at the deep-centers. The sense energies, more and more easily, turn inward to go along with this process. This process interupts the cycle of desire (dualistic sensation resulting in outward grasping or resisting) in order to foster the reverse.
P> What is the specific process? >
If there is some point where you go off track with the steps of the essay, please quote the phrase, the first place you find mis-step, where you find yourself with it, and I’ll clarify.
P> When I am filled with hate or lust how do I deal with it based on what is on that page on your website? >
Certainly there are times when the deep-centers, central channel, etc. is obscured to a point where other practices are more appropriate .. going to the gym etc. That’s why there is basic circulation (including exercise and qi gong and practicing devotion and chanting and focusing on an enlightened mentor), and then bringing somewhat blended energy into the deep-center. The blended energy (plus knowledge of the steps) helps to ignite the aspects of the subtle. Knowing what aspects of the subtle connect directly to Undifferentiated Bigness is important.
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How did a question about weight loss get into discussing Wendy’s once-a-month sex life?
Forget it, I dont want to know. Thanks to Spyrelx for giving useful information.
My problem is that what you describe on your website is a process that one witnesses rather then something one does.
Certainly one must do something in order to witness what you describe. Otherwise, we would all be in jhana. 😉
It isn’t that I go off track at a specific point in your essay, it is that I never get on the track to begin with.
Really, it sounds like you are describing some center channel activity but what does one do to get the energy in the center channel?
If it requires emptiness then how do I empty out?
If it requires some action then how do I act?
To + to what P has wrote..
I guess this is a good time to say I have for the most part been lost when it comes to following Franzen’s texts. This is not a critisizm of Kieth I think he has a good heart and have no doubt people are benefitting from his presence over years, but I find a problem with his meditations the same way I find trouble with Winns. It all seems contrived.
I am a self professed “zainy zenny”(an awesome termonalogy I wholeheardetly borrow from Carmela from the ‘Sopranos’) at the moment and forseable future and subscribe to the ” empty out and you will be filled” philosophy and practice.
However I still think Taoist Alchemy as Winn and Franzen(and others)explain it is “neat”(Ok Kieth I will insert that your really explaining the Tibetan stuff more than Taoist). In fact, I do think it is the missing link in many respects because I often find, as a by product of zazen, all kinds of cool qi sensations or mixing energy with the sun or moon etc. Whereas a zen practitioner would say these types of phenomena are much ado about nothing the Taoist energy schools have very cool explanations. I mean..when I here P say no talk about mixing your shen with the deep center and combining it with the Earth’s core in order to dissolve your karmmic patterns and connect with the plantery soul..Well that all sounds like a lot of mental doo doo but as I was sitting outside on Scottsdale Rd yesterday looking at Camelback Mountain and a sweet lady was talking to me I sort of momentarily had a glimpse of that.
Atleast I think I did. Probably just another mental attachment though. I think it is pretty obvious this is circling back to the conversation that was going on over the past months but on a more subtle level.
Forget about the body AND the mind(See P has been saying over and over it’s about the mind but after studying Nan I now know the correct interpretation is to let go of BOTH mind and body 🙂
Let go of everything..obviously something that takes years, decades, centuries, lifetimes, kalpas to achive.
Vs. The trying to create nice internal weather ala fusion(Winn) trying to merge emptiness with bliss in the core(Franzen).
As I always remind people I know please remember this is just the shit that has come out of my mouth or the shit that has been written about with my fingertips today!
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