Home › Forum Online Discussion › General › Weight Loss- Question for Michael
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August 5, 2005 at 11:11 am #6935spyrelxParticipant
I’m in no position to judge Master Nan’s spiritual progress. My guess is he’s farther along the path than I am (way farther).
Regarding anything Plato or anyone else tells you about spiritual matters that seems miraculous or extraordinary, my advice is to note it but not rely on it.
There is A LOT of hyperbole and puffing and outright lying in these areas. I don’t think Plato’s a liar (at least not a huge one), but his bias is towards both making and believing (and repeating) extreme claims in order to justify some “truth” he wants to share.
I doubt he’s making up the Nan stories out of whole cloth, but he may just be repeating exagerations that were told to him. I mean, do you know that Michael Winn can walk though walls? WALK RIGHT THROUGH THEM. It’s absolutely true. I heard one of his starry eyed students say it once as plain fact, around a table of five people and NO ONE challenged him on it.
I doubt Michael would make that claim. Though he might have said something in a class that was taken by this guy as such a claim, and the guy is just repeating it as some established fact. Or the guy heard it from someone is repeating it. This is the sort of thing that leads to “my teacher is capable of feats that would blow your mind”.
In case you or anyone else is wondering, I think Plato is a fine guy. I’ve met him a few times and I like him. I just like to keep him intelectually honest and grounded in these discussions (or, what I view as intellectually honest and grounded).
August 5, 2005 at 12:58 pm #6937TrunkParticipantWendy,
Really, really nice to have you around.
A number of your posts have struck me as thoughtful, compassionate, deeply respectful of your own process and of others’. I almost commented along these lines earlier, but this is such a busy thread.. 🙂 In any case, you can only post so many brilliant, wonderfuls – before I’ve gotta say thanks.Keith
August 5, 2005 at 1:14 pm #6939MoonglowParticipantno txt
August 5, 2005 at 1:35 pm #6941hagarParticipantHi Keith
Interesting debate.
I have made some of the same reflections in my own practice. Just wanted to comment on what you wrote: The transmission of pure energy from a teacher is really really important. People can do these practices for decades with minor or no result, unless the fire of the master ignites your own. I witnessed this really strongly on a retreat some weeks ago, when I suddenly found my DanTian burning, and looked up only to witness my master holding a talisman and telling us to reflect what was happening in our dantians and other cavities. With no spark there is no real fire.For my own part, the practice must align proper method, consistent application, and recognizing the change and effect. If there is a deviation of the intended field of focus and the application of the technique, there will be no real progress…
Peace.
h
August 5, 2005 at 3:51 pm #6943MoonglowParticipantI have a question and I would really appreciate an open and honest answer. With transmission from a master is the student bound to the master’s beliefs and myself, I am so fearful of the master being connected to not so good energy. Truthfully when I practised with a so-called qigong master and we supposedly had a business, friendship, student/master relationship I could sense that there were times when he was different. When he connected to his master I guess. Only things is I believe he had 3 connections. His personality made very strong changes depending on what he was connected to. He had strong energy but he was also very sneaky. Wasn’t truthful at all. I did have some very great energetic shifts while studying with him but I cannot say that I understand everything what he did. I just felt that he used the groups energy to do what he wanted, such as healing a person who would pay for it. I believe he used our energy to do it, especially towards the end. I had energetic red flags up all over the place. My partner and I would leave class extremely tired and when my partner got sick and the “master” refused to even help him I just knew something was up. Other students got very tired also, and one ended up getting cancer. Just was wierd. Try standing up to this fella and telling him you don’t believe in his way and he can have his business records to look after himself. Try doing that and walking away from it without fear. There were so many htings that happened with his classes. THings I saw like the reptilian feet standing next to me during one meditation. They were huge orange and green feet. Kind of creepy. I asked the “master” about them. He refused to answer. I also had a “seeing” before I met him. Kind of strange. I had met this black man at my work and was helping him get connections for some studies in research hewanted to do. Anyways a couple of days later after I had asked the universe to send me a teacher, well I get this vision/dream of this very tall dark man and me in a huge room with a huge table. And on this table was bright coloured flowers and fruit. And I hear a voice saying “we will send you a teacher” “he will push hands with you, are you afraid”. I stood up to this man, just up to his chest, and I said “no”. I said to them, that I could not see but only hear, that I idd not have money to pay this teacher, but maybe I could give him food or something, maybe some cheese (go figure, it was a dream okay) and I could hear them laughing and they told me not to worry about it. When I looked up at this fellow, this tall guy in my dream who was to be my qigong master I guess I could see some of his black face rub off and underneath was kind of yellow skin with a mole. Well when chances and life bring this qigong master to where I live and I end up picking him up at the airport and his face is the same as in the dream, the face under the black mask, I thought it was intended to be. And on another part of this I ran into the black man I helped at work, I guess he had an accident a few nights before. HE was boiling rice and it exploded and he burnt his face but suprisingly enough he had no scarring. He was healing very well.
So now what I think happened is htat I had connected to this black man and somehow when he had the accident I brought him into my dream vision. And at this time this qigong master used this to enter my vision and portray himself — or someone did or maybe there really is a committee that gathered together to plan my training. I really don’t know. But I know that since this expeirence I am very, very leary of qigong masters and there has only been one in Tennessee that I trust completely, but he is white and is not well right now. He received transmision from an old lady, I bleiee she was Chinese. Anyways as he was helping her with his qigong she died as she died she touched him and opened his 3rd eye as she passed on. So his transmission was not intentional but it worked anyways.
So, well, my concern is that what if I choose the wrong master to transmit to me. What if that. Am I always tied to that master. Am I always bound to that?
THis so called qiogng master gave me a sheet of paper with invocations on it, said it would help protect me and bring me better finances. After I left this master I burnt the paper. Maybe what he was connected to was good but I don’t know that for sure. Another thing … when my friend from Tennessee came up to help us treat my friend and a student of this so called qiogng master of his cancer, as my friend was fading fast, as we sealed the room to begin the qigong healing I noticed something fly against the floor, and then as we sealed again the paper stuck to the side of the wall. After we were done the healing session I stepped over to the paper. My friend with the cancer said it was a paper wiht a recipe written on it that he was to burn and put the ashes in a “tea” to drink. I do not think this writing was connected to so good a thing for htis master had spoken once of others who could invoke “dead” to life by invoking a spirit to go in their body. Taht he knew of these things.
This so called qigong master whom we studied with also told my friend who was dying of cancer that if he stuck with him he would be healthy in 3 years. Well when I found out that my friend had paid for at least 12 plane trips to Vancouver for this “qigong master” and was paying him about $300 per healing session 2 to 3 times per week, I friggin well flipped.
The messsage I heard in my heart before I asked our friend in Tennessee to hlep us iwth our friend who was dying of cancer was to bring him home. I did not know what that meant for awhile,I get messages such as these. But I think now it meant for me to bring my dying friend back to his self. his essence. I believe this qigong master was using him financially and energetically. My friend lived another 6 months, but he did so many htings to undo what we did for him. We knew he would die, it was his time. But we learned so much from him, I learned so much about qiogng masters and how they can live in energetic truth but live lies here on earth plane. HOw the universal plan doesn’t always agree to our earth plan. That to judge this qiogng master as being evil, well was he? I don’t truly know. Too many unanswered questions that nobody has given me any answers to. I only know that I was to tkae my friend back to his essence and give him as much comfort as we could. And I saw so many beautiful things that my friend from Tennessee did in his healing. I saw the green spew from a hold in my sick friend’s liver. Had no idea what it was at the time we were in group healing, but asked later. My friend from Tennessee was releasing anger, toxin from liver. I also saw my sick friend held up in the void and he was vertical and he turned round and I saw gifts fall from my Tennessee friend’s hands. Gifts in like gift boxes of the clearest colours of blue and red and yellow and green. It was so very beautiful.
I also saw, when I myself was treating my friend thru my third eye. (My partner and I treated him every day for a few weeks, then every other day). Anyways as I treated my friend energetically this face jumped out from his liver – his energetic anger and I threw it into the earth., one of his demons I guess.Anyways, in one year I learned so much and would like to continue on but only with some answers to some of my questions. And htis time I want to know the consequences of some of what is done – universally.
I feel that healing is very tricky, for one does not want to upset any karmic balance nor any event that needs to happen to benefit the release of karma. There is always cause and effect and sometimes the effect not only effects your client but many others as well.
When we healed our cancer friend for that short time we knew he would eventually die before we even started but we felt he was put before us for a reason and we put our hearts and soul into healing him. We took away one whole tumor and diagnose his steptoccoccus infection. It does work but if the client’s spirit doesn’t want to stay, it doesn’t want to stay.Anyways, I find it hard to find a teacher where I live. They all want you to kowtow for 5 years or so and then maybe they will decide if they want to teach you or not. Just a bunch of crap really and I am not getting any younger and I am definately not rich enough to buy my way into anything.
So here I sit.
Rejected by taiji/qigong master.
Left another qigong master
Grew crystal on own timeSo now what?
We have a couple of people who want us to teach them what we know, but we just do it casually, nothing deep.
But we have not teacher, no transmission. and not much trust.
Any suggestions?
August 5, 2005 at 4:17 pm #6945spyrelxParticipantFirst — Chill.
Second — Your not “bound” to anybody, to anybody’s system or beliefs. The minute you understand this any chains you feel will disapear.
It sounds like you’ve got some basic practices. Why do you NEED a teacher at this point? If you want someone to trust for inner alchemy whose not going to play mind games, get some of Michael Winn’s tapes. That should keep you busy.
If you want someone for hands on physical stuff — like tai chi or other martial arts — then go to a real martial arts dojo where they teach the physical stuff and don’t emphasize the inner work. That should keep you away from unscrupulous live “masters”.
If you want both inner and outer work, get some tapes and go to the martial arts dojo.
If you want training in healing — I’d stay away from that for a while. You sound kind of scattered and I don’t think you should pursue learning to be a healer in that state.
Yeah, life transmission is important, but so is basic, focused, work, discipline and training. Work on building that and trust that a live teacher will be there when necessary.
August 5, 2005 at 4:33 pm #6947Golden SunParticipantThat sounds like a fair stance. BTW, Enlightnement, satori, Imortality, whatever languange we are using for the “suprememe goal” of life should not be some vague experience.
From all of my studying of zen masters the satori experience was absolutely earth shattering, life changing to say the least, complete transformation of body, mind and personality experiences.
If you choose to think these stories are exagerations that’s cool but true enlightenment from the tradition started by Shakyamuni Buddha, brought to China by Bodhidharma, passed down for centuries in an unbroken lineage throughout China and then Japan, has HISTORICAL and detailed accounts of the enlightnment experienced by THOUSANDS of people.
And it’s not akin to being a little higher up on a rock in the middle of a fog. It’s total, complete see through to the bottom of your soul self realization.
I happen to beleive in this and want this for myself. But like John Daido Loori told me even in the Golden age of zen in China, when the Emperor was a Buddhist…very, very few people even practiced zen much less got enlightened(lot’s of Chinese, you know.)
If it jives with you great, if not, great. I come from a family with a Roman catholic mother who goes to mass every day and a father who is from a family of Muslims that take trips to Mecca. I was born learning to accept other people’s views.
But I do think zen is where it is at(And the esoteric school is ‘neat’ too)
August 5, 2005 at 5:18 pm #6949MoonglowParticipantSounds like what I have kind of been doing already. Except for the internal training. I am just practising what I know already, when I feel like it.
As for being scattered, well you are probably right. Have been working on cleaning up some deep issues. That tends to have one a little all over as roots from different experiences are dissolved.
As for chilling. Well, you know I have read a lot of stuff here and it is mostly very good. But too ….. people should know what is out there. Things do not always appear so simple and it sometimes takes a little wrangling to bring them that way. As for healing. We all heal each other in different ways every day, every encounter sometimes so I a not so concerned with that.
I have actually thrown up the qigong, given it to universe and other than practising sometimes and meeting with a few friends that is about all I do with it. If it needs more it will come to me I agree. As for teachers … well I don’t believe there will be one again in that area, and I am quite fine with that.
At least I am not like I was before — naive and ignorant.
That is worth something.
What I said in my previous post is 100% real. No exagerration. I tend not to lie. Just experiences that I haven’t seen here and I think maybe some others may benefit from the knowing of them.
As for phsyical grounding I do have that. I work all day as admin assist to Research and Eval in a government health care facility, deliver newspapers for 1 hour every a.m. (7 days per week) and clean a vet clinic twice per week. So I am totally in reality. I do agree with your points and they are well taken.
Thanks so much
August 5, 2005 at 6:17 pm #6951TrunkParticipantdao-dharma-dao
August 8, 2005 at 7:21 am #6953hagarParticipantHi
I have only studied with one qigongmaster, and I totally trust him.
As to your question, I guess we need to define the term “transmission”. Transmission can be found in any relationship. In watching anyone who has a “gong” in whatever field, either mentally, spiritually of physically, there is an underlying energetic process that is being “transmitted”. If you watch Tiger Woods play golf, you get a transmission of his Gong, and you play a better game og golf yourself. If you hear Bill Clinton speak, you recieve some of his “gong”, and you may feel that alot of problems can be solved, and changing things are possible. Gong is by nature contagious.
When we speak of transmission in spiritual practice the transmission is not based on the personality of the master. The transmission uses the master as a vehicle, or a gateway. This requires a very high level of Gong. Any other exchange taking place is not genuine spiritual transmission. Alot of qigongmasters have personal agendas, and their energy is quite “raw” and difficult to receive true benifit from. Some so-called masters are just manipulating the chi field, and are not working on an integrated Shen, or light level at all. These masters usually end up getting themselves in some sort of trouble, because things happen on a dualistic level.
It seems like the master you have met works in this way. I do not think he neccessarily is “bad”, but only taking advantage of the chi field to do his work. True transmission works on the Shen level, or via Heart-to-heart transmission. This is more like getting a spiritual pin-code given by the master to access cosmic energy and information. Using the code you are given, you instantly recieve the information. You can be taugth thousand techniques and approaches, but they would be like having a computer running, but not being connected to the internet. True healing is given by the master by sealing and sorting out the knots and tangles we have on a shen level. My master said we are like fading comets. When we are born we are complete, but at sexual awakening we start to leak energy. Not only on a jing level. So healing is done while sealing the shen and getting it back to the body,so that we are not leaking our light anymore. The chi healing does not have this effect.
You are not bound by transmission, and you should feel absolutely free to choose in what way you relate to the practice. The main focus is the opposite of attatchment to someone or something. Through practice we get more self-reliand, detached, and free.
Maybe this was of some help…
h
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