November 4, 2004 at 2:56 pm #1771
Is it just me, or is there no consensus on the location of the lower tan tien? Is it in the center of the body? Or is it two inches in from the front? It seems like every source I read has it different. And sometimes there are discrepancies in the very same source. Yudelove’s “Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy”, for example, actually has a picture in it with the ltt being under the navel and two inches in from the front of the body, accompanies by text confirming this location. Then 20 pages later he is saying it’s actually in the middle of the body, closer to the spine.
Can someone please clarify? I remember seeing a diagram of the lower orbit on Keith’s site (can’t find the link right now) that labeled the location under the navel as “guan yin” or something like that. Are these authors perhaps mixing up the ltt, which I understand to be the cauldron/elixir field in the center of the abdomen, and the point under the navel on the microcosmic orbit?
Sean.November 4, 2004 at 3:29 pm #1772
The Tan Tien is a locus of energy and it cannot really have a “location”.
When the mind rests within the tan tien, the sensation is unmistakable.
When you find it, you will know.
There may be a sense of acceleration, rising, something pending or inevitable, OR a sensation of pulling inward, contraction or stability.
The classic description is 2 accu-inches below the navel, slightly toward the back from the “center” of the body. (4/7ths of the way back)
You can tell when awareness is forward of the Tan Tien, behind it, to the left or to the right of it. Get it surrounded and spiral inward all the while staying conscious of it with averted awareness.
Initally it will probably take some practice to stabilize consciousness right in the Tan Tien.
JamesNovember 4, 2004 at 3:55 pm #1774
In the book “opening the dragon gate – the making of a modern Taoist wizard”, the idea seems to be that the location of the tan tien varies with the distance to the equator the person in question is living. A person in China would then have his tan tien in a slightly different location to someone living in the west. Or so the idea is anyway. This would in part explain the variations given in literature and elsewhere. This in turn would mean that the location often given to westerners is really the location for someone Chinese. Or?
// Peace.November 4, 2004 at 4:05 pm #1776
Is this renewed presence a temporary thing?
It can take a lot of energy to contribute to this board, but if more people connected to HT or MWHT (Michael Winn’s version of Healing Tao) were here to contribute regularly perhaps the flavor of the discussion would be of a higher quality.
CraigNovember 4, 2004 at 4:14 pm #1778
Your personal center of gravity.
But really James answer is the best. IT is NOT a physical structure and therefore the perception of where it is, how big it is, is up to your experience of it.
And your experience of it, not your intellectual understanding of where it “should” be, is what really matters.
CraigNovember 4, 2004 at 5:32 pm #1780
Guan yuan, CV-4, is the point 2″ below the belly button, near the surface. Some Daoist traditions focus on that heavily as a major “lower tan tien” point.
ime, the deep-center of the lower tan tien has the quality of no-quality; there is no energetic “spin” in that location, often less sensation than the surrounding area. So, you are actually looking for a still place in the deep-center of the body.
Where, exactly, that is – changes as your alchemy changes. I’ve heard Master Kim, from the Sun Do tradition, say that the location starts out somewhere front-of-center-of-the-body, and moves further back as one’s alchemy progresses. (I infer that it could fluctuate, as we aren’t all so fortunate as to have consistent progress.) His comment parallels my experience.
I’ve seen different texts put the tan tien (and central vessel, which the tan tien resides along) at various locations vis-a-vis front~back, and i’ve chalked it up to the above phenomena.
On another note, I e-mailed you at your gmail account, re: graphics. Did you get my e-mail? (I got no response.) Feel free to e-mail me at TrunkNOSPAM@AlchemicalTaoism.com (take out the NOSPAM).
Little OrbitNovember 4, 2004 at 9:30 pm #1782November 5, 2004 at 12:31 am #1784
Ahhh, thanks Keith. I think it’s starting to make sense to me. Would it be correct to say that the Lower Cauldron is the space inside the “bucket” of the Little Orbit, and the Lower Tan Tien is a distinct energy field that within this space somewhere?
If this is accurate, are the other Cauldron’s the same? Spaces containing Tan Tien’s that can move around? Am I taking this all too literally?
Your email never came through. Strange. I’ll write you now though.
somlorNOSPAM@gmail.comNovember 5, 2004 at 12:34 am #1786
I forgot to say, I apologize for using and altering your web graphics without permission. If it offends you let me know and I’ll take the image off my site.November 5, 2004 at 2:52 am #1788
s> Would it be correct to say that the Lower Cauldron is the space inside the “bucket” of the Little Orbit, and the Lower Tan Tien is a distinct energy field that within this space somewhere? >
The way I’ve heard things used, “lower cauldron” and “lower tan tien” get used interchangably. …and people often use them to refer to the whole lower abdomenal area (physically and/or energetically), and/or to refer to some spot in there that is especially of focus within their (who ever is talking) system.
There is something genuinely special about the deep-center, the “no-spin zone”, as it is a very effective bridge to Bigger (Non-Dual) Stuff.
Your graphic is, again, very cool. Fairly accurate. The deep-center can even shift further towards the spine as things go along. And, the deep-centers are strung along the central vessel.
s> If this is accurate, are the other Cauldron’s the same? >
At a real detailed level, i don’t know. But, basically: yes.
s> Am I taking this all too literally? >
Learning the details of what is a cauldron.. What happens in one, how does the cauldron refine energy (or not), what can happen in the deep-centers. There’s plenty of mining to do in this area.
TrunkNovember 10, 2004 at 5:57 pm #1790November 10, 2004 at 7:21 pm #1792
is that you in the picture?
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