January 29, 2010 at 10:43 pm #33117
This question has come to mind as a consequence of the
discussion of the porn article on General page.
If sexual drive is a reflection of the intrinsic
creative force of the lifeforce–the very nature
of life and existence–then why do we as individuals
have SO MUCH SHAME over sexual impulses/desires, more so
than most other things?
Is it just due to cultural upbringing and/or insidious
religious doctrines of control, or is there something
more going on here on a core fundamental level?
There’s something very odd about this, and am
interested in hearing opinions.
For discussion …
SJanuary 30, 2010 at 5:51 am #33118
I think the sexual impulse has no concept of shame, it is the DOING force.
Shame is a concept of our mind, our head, it is our THINKING force.
I came to understand for myself, that some ‘unusual’ sexual actions in the past made me feel good, it gave me pleasure in that moment of doing it, yet the shame came afterwards, when my mind started to THINK about it.
And I hear that sort of process with many more people when I ask deeper about the ‘actual action’ which made them feel vibrant, good, wanted and the fear and shame that came after the event.
The sexual drive does not care. Which creates problems in our society. Since sexual drive is not bound to rules, our society is. So we get into trouble. The more sex drive that is DOING without listening to the boundaries of rules, the more shame arises when we start to reflect on our sexual behavior.
To me there is only one real solution to this problem.
When we act from love the sex that we have, no matter how we have it, as long as love is involved the sex is ‘clean’ and is free from any shame.
The heart KNOWS what is right or wrong, we don’t need society or religious rules to tell us what is good or wrong. The heart will prevent us from doing harmful things that hurt us, hurt our feelings, our soul and hurt others.
Yet when the heart is not speaking up freely, when the heart is closed off, we are in trouble, the sex and the head are in conflict. Our drive and our moral are in a fight, both have value, yet are drifting and lost, or stuck in one way or the other.
Love is the true answer and solution to the on-going conflict between sex and mind.January 30, 2010 at 8:08 pm #33120
I agree mainly, I would add that grounding is key. Allot of people have beautiful hearts they are just not grounded. What creates so much sexual obsession in our American society is ungroundedness. Being un-grounded creates obsessions, excessive behavior, a controlling nature and greed. It is in worry and fear. It was amazing to feel the difference in the chi field between China and America in regards to sexual obsession. So for all you guys going out to have some grounded fun. Just remember one thing.January 31, 2010 at 7:18 pm #33122
Thanks Wendy for your words.
I think you have some deep insights into sexuality.
I would say that what you’ve mentioned explains about
half of it . . . but there’s also another component
which doesn’t referent any particular sexual acts
a person has engaged in thus far.
For example, a person can have sexual desires that
they don’t actually act on, but nonetheless somehow
even having the desires creates an internal dialogue
Almost as if there is an internal judge that acts
to reprimand you for your thoughts . . .
If I may give a personal example:
There are plenty of times when I become sexually aroused
in everyday life and/or catch myself daydreaming about
something sexual. Then “the judge” appears and proceeds
to “lecture” me. It says things like “that’s not proper”,
“that’s inappropriate”, “what if such-and-so
persons/relatives/friends knew that you were having such
thoughts and feelings, they’d be so ashamed of you”,
blah, blah, blah. All kinds of negative judgemental
chatter designed to induce feelings of shame, fear, and
lack of acceptance in being a sexual being. Then I
find myself internally arguing with this judge and
trying to silence his negative judgemental decrees.
I’ve talked with a good number of other people and they
have confirmed with me that they’ve experienced these
same phenemona on different occasions.
And I’m not sure why, or where this negative internal
judgemental chatter against being a sexual being comes from.
It intrigues and fascinates me.
Sorry, I guess I’m babbling now, but psycho-sexual issues
and related emotions fascinate me. Non-sexual emotions
tend not to be so slippery (pun intended 😛 ).
SJanuary 31, 2010 at 8:00 pm #33124
Does it date me, if I were to tell you I
had a crush on her as a pre-teen? 🙂
Good tunes . . . SFebruary 1, 2010 at 3:21 am #33126
On this subject – and working with lesser Kan Li course material, study of Karcher’s I Ching book; isn’t part of the story that body level yang and yin male energies are antagonistic. Fire/mind/love – water/body/sex. Getting them to couple internally is not such a smooth experience to begin with – very volatile elements. The water one wants sex. As they (we) couple internally and birth more yuan chi (jing, shen) there is more harmony, refinement. Wondering whether ‘judge’ is earth/yang/yin in emphasis. Fire/Mind/Love not integrated with water/sex? Not suggesting this is easy. Incidentally Saturn is currently Rx in Libra (judge) square Pluto (tranform via deep core). Handle via Planetary alchemy but is upgrade to center/earth element. Hope this is constructive comment. If not helpful pls ignore.February 1, 2010 at 11:35 pm #33128
>>>On this subject – and working with lesser Kan Li
>>>course material, study of Karcher’s I Ching book;
>>>isn’t part of the story that body level yang and
>>>yin male energies are antagonistic. Fire/mind/love
>>>- water/body/sex. Getting them to couple internally
>>>is not such a smooth experience to begin with –
>>>very volatile elements. The water one wants sex.
>>>As they (we) couple internally and birth more yuan chi
>>>(jing, shen) there is more harmony, refinement.
>>>Wondering whether ‘judge’ is earth/yang/yin in emphasis.
>>> Fire/Mind/Love not integrated with water/sex?
>>>Not suggesting this is easy.
I’m not familiar with that material.
This adds another perspective. Thanks.
In particular, I’ll have to explore your
last couple lines in more detail through inner
>>>Incidentally Saturn is currently Rx in Libra (judge)
>>>square Pluto (tranform via deep core). Handle via
>>>Planetary alchemy but is upgrade to center/earth
>>>element. Hope this is constructive comment.
>>>If not helpful pls ignore.
Planetary influences may act as an amplifier, but
I think there’s something more core and local
at work with respect to this “internal judge”.
I’m been trying to explore this for a while now,
and haven’t been making much progress. I haven’t
struck upon the right ideas or the right tools.
I think there’s stuff missing from LKL just like
there’s stuff missing from Fusion. Let me explain:
Fusion, as originally taught by Chia, was very
mechanical. Its flaws were that it didn’t
give a voice to the inner parts of self that were
hurting; it just processed the feelings without
finding out the source–in fact, sometimes it
was even hard to connect with the feeling to
begin with. MW altered Fusion 1 to fix this
deficit. It’s much better now. There are still
a few things missing, but I’ve found other things
to fill the void. At any rate, I feel like I have a
pretty good picture now of the emotional landscape–
at least of the non-sexual variety.
Now enter LKL.
LKL, in my view, does the same thing, but for
sexual/psycho-sexual issues. But I’m starting to
feel like LKL has the same shortcomings for
psycho-sexual issues that Fusion once had–namely
it has some great mechanical tools and can help
complete certain things, but it doesn’t necessarily
help you identify the underlying pattern/root; it
doesn’t necessarily address the emotional feelings
and/or give a voice to certain inner parts of self or help
identify what the conflict is. I.E. I feel there’s
some kind of yin component that’s missing. I’ve
been trying to explore this for a while now, which is
part of my reason of interest (plus, who doesn’t
like thinking about sex 😛 ).
One could argue that, well, you get other tools as
you go up, say to Greater and Greatest, and while
that may be true, I think they deal with other
things–important things–but other things nonetheless
. . . just like LKL does other things than Fusion and
doesn’t necessarily fill in the gaps that Fusion 1 misses.
Which is ultimately the main reason for this post . . .
To try to get others to post their thoughts and opinions . . .
To get as many fresh perspectives as possible . . .
At any rate, this inner negative “judge” is an interesting
character, and trying to figure out what it’s purpose is
or what it is trying to communicate/do is an intriguing
mystery; understanding its nature and what it is, is another
StevenFebruary 2, 2010 at 4:06 am #33130
Thanks for everyone posting.
Thanks for your comments.
You wrote, “…Fusion 1 to fix this deficit. It’s much better now. There are still a few things missing, but I’ve found other things to fill the void.” Would you mind sharing what other techniques that help fill the void are?
You also wrote, “But I’m starting to feel like LKL has the same shortcomings for
psycho-sexual issues that Fusion once had–namely it has some great mechanical tools and can help complete certain things, but it doesn’t necessarily
help you identify the underlying pattern/root; it doesn’t necessarily address the emotional feelings and/or give a voice to certain inner parts of self or help
identify what the conflict is. I.E. I feel there’s some kind of yin component that’s missing.” Are you able to elaborate more on missing a yin component?
Wendy in a previous post mentioned a Doing force (sexual impulse) and a Thinking force (mind). I think she is right. I’ve noticed that the Doing force just does, it doesn’t think or have a connotation bad or good. But the Thinking force can attach itself to the Doing force. It is the judgement that comes from the Thinking force that has the bad in it. I’ve learned from Roy Masters having judgement is resentment which can mean anger. I can do the upward draw with my Jing or the Doing force but still be pissed off (seems anger (contraction) attaches to Jing (sticky) easily)(Or do Kan and Li instead of upward draw). Then I can do fusion and transform my anger. So the question to ask is, “Does any or some of the Taoist practices resolve the Doing force and/or the Thinking force completely?”, also “Is the Thinking force natural or is there more than one? How does it relate to the Taoist concept of the uncarved block?”. Does the ‘judge’ just represent you haven’t gone deep enough in Fusion/emotions in resolution or is it something else? Since I am only practicing on basic levels I can’t truly answer from personal experience. (A good movie to watch is Revolver by Guy Ritchie. It is about your ego being the ultimate opponent.)
Here is another idea that I came across in my travels. Some people say your mind “judge” is not your own but a foreign installation. The foreign mind is there to fixate your awareness on self importance and make your true mind submissive. It does that by interjecting thoughts and making you believe they are your own. Those thoughts create in each person a dichotomy, “well I want the ice cream but I am going to get fat.”. The dichotomy or opposing thoughts will then create those negative judgemental feelings you talked about. A decisional ‘charged’ force that is focused on the self…repeated on a subtle level. Maybe what Wendy means by the Thinking force.
So if taken at face value, then with Fusion and the Kan and Li’s you are balancing out your emotions, sexual energy and also other heavenly energies but not adjusting your awareness to stop fixating on self importance. An example is why when I see that girl (guy, etc.) I automatically think of f’ing her brains out or why when I am chilling out thinking of nothing does a fantasy just pop into my mind? The simple answer is you must intend to stop the fixation of your awareness on your self and not to have a foreign installed mind. Through your intention of stopping the mind and other techniques like reviewing your life your awareness can change and not be fixated to enhance your self importance or put another way be fluid to fixate on the spot of the true mind without the ‘judge’. Have you ever done something during the day and then dreamt about it that night? That is your awareness focused during the day with intention that trickles into your dreaming.
Now I will try to put what I’ve said in Taoist and modern terms. Like what MW says that you go to a deeper level of the operating system. Fusion works with the emotional software and K&L with the sexual and higher energy software. Always going deeper to balance and harmonize. So if what some people say is true that the internalized dialog is not natural but a combination of external thought forms and internal energetic fixation then you are not truely the uncarved block yet. To still use the computer analogy you have a virus in your bios, which is a part of the hardware that is used to load the operating system.
On a side note if anyone doesn’t know M. Chia has a dvd about reprogramming negative emotions which is newer and wasn’t taught up until a few years ago. It is a part of Fusion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE5-VfUXtyE (the technique is part way in). I mention it because it incorporates a different facet of memorized emotions. He talks about removing the emotions and also the mental reference to it in the brain and organs. A key part is also the movement of your head. Another emotional/mental reference is mentioned by Wang Li Ping in Entering the Dragon’s Gate by him having to sit in a darkened room and go over his life. Along the same lines a current day group that practices a similar meditation is Maum meditation. You can also find some more information by reading Carlos Castaneda’s books. Or try listening to Roy Masters http://www.fhu.com who uses a special concentration exercise.
I hope I wrote coherently, there was a lot I was trying to fit in a finite space.
Namaste, May the bleep be with you.February 2, 2010 at 6:14 pm #33132
Yes I like that dvd you mention. Seems to me like a version of fusion – incorporating MW’s inclusion of shen and letting ‘them’ do the balancing while you observe. (Integrates well with Shen fusion in Star Alchemy I think).
Maybe consider the fire/mind as transforming as well as water/sex – following the line that false yin and false yang components get cooked and yuan neutral births more true. In dealing with sexual – (as taught here) right into the ancestral soup and many compulsions and tendencies are coming from that arena. Hope not running off track here – but I do agree with statement in one of the healing tao books (Cosmic Healing 2) that sexual energy difficult to transform with absorbing moon essence (GKL – Sun /Moon alchemy) – ie absorbing great yin of Moon and great Yang of Sun to balance/tranform ones internal (more) embodied versions of yin/yang principles. The many ‘ghosts’ of the past hiding in the background are brought into a tranformational space – true earth. Just saying these levels of practice are completely interrelated. IMO as soon as you are doing chi kung you are entering the sun/moon alchemy world. It has helped me to really understand this – as ones relationships to family etc start metamorphing – and you get to see how transforming some of this stuff is part of your work. Sexual energy upgrade inevitably involves some ghost busting. Absorbing Moon essence helps the alchemist. This is a rehash of course material but with a few cooking credits.February 2, 2010 at 6:16 pm #33134
Meant to say “sexual energy difficult to transform without absorbing moon essence”February 2, 2010 at 8:15 pm #33136
Russeln, btw the Cosmic 2 book has a lot of my material that Wendy put into it while editing it for Dirk, including the observations you quoted. Ironic, given wendy’s input here….
This subject of sex, mind, and soul is endlessly fascinating because it is, I feel,the central trauma not only of Humanity – why did we splitinto male anf female bodies, andhow do we heal that? – but it’s the central trauma of this whole Cosmos, in that decision to split the sexes and all the fallout down thru the eons was essentially a FREE WILL issue.
I think Wendy has simplified it nicely – the “love” component from the heart is Humanity;s free will contribution to the healing of the male-female split, and why we hold such an ultimate value on Unconditional Love. That means not male nor female love, no judgement, love coming from place of pre-splitting of the sexes.
More to chew on next time you are feeling sexy….just ask your Soul, Hey, what are you really hungry for?
michaelFebruary 2, 2010 at 11:28 pm #33138
You raise a lot of interesting questions.
I’ll try to address some of them.
First I’ll address your question about emotional techniques:
>>>You wrote, “…Fusion 1 to fix this deficit. It’s much better now.
>>>There are still a few things missing, but I’ve found other
>>>things to fill the void.”
>>Would you mind sharing what other techniques that help fill the void are?
There are tons of other emotional techniques out there, some of which
I use and some I don’t. I guess it all sort of depends on the person
and what you need. Judith Poole teaches a whole course on other
emotional techniques in her Energy Medicine/Psychology course. Some
of them are great techniques, while some of them I feel suffer from
the same shortcomings I find to some degree in Fusion 1,
i.e. aggressively process and transmute without understanding
what the underlying pattern is that is generating the emotions
to begin with. The flaw with some of these things is that you
feel great in the short-term as you transform the surface crap,
but then the underlying pattern which is not addressed is left
unsatisfied. It then regenerates negative emotional states–
sometimes more severe than before–in part because it’s almost
as if those “parts” are “pissed” that you never got the original
message, so they come back with intensity to try to get you to
do something about them.
Again, everyone has to sort of find a mix of things that works
for them. On the emotional level (provided it’s not
psycho-sexual related), I’ve come up with what I would consider
an effective combination for *me* for emotional issues.
First, use Focusing techniques to locate and identify the
underlying voice and message that the internal parts are
wanting to express.
Then, once you’ve given a voice to the internal beliefs,
blast them with the Inner Smile to make them feel
accepted and safe, to acknowledge that their opinions are
Then, once these underlying beliefs are exposed
and opinions accepted, along with having the internal
negative dialog identified, then alter the internal
programming using EFT.
Then, once the internal belief systems have been altered,
so that the negative pattern generator is dissolved,
I feed the negative physical manifestation of those
emotions into the Fusion 1 scheme.
I.E. in short: Focusing -> Inner Smile -> EFT -> Fusion 1
In total, at least to me, this sequence of tools
fits the bill and creates a complete method I feel
Of course, this is just what I’ve found fills in the
landscape; others may find a different program suitable to
Other supplementary tools I use to prevent the onset of
new negative emotional architecture include
“Be Set Free Fast” (see Judith Poole’s course) and
“Don’t Bite the Hook: Finding Freedom etc.” by
Pema Chodron (CD by Buddhist nun–some good psychological
tools if you screen out some nonsense Buddhist philosophy).
Energy medicine and/or Healing Sounds work as a quick fix
when you don’t have time to clean out the pattern.
At any rate, just some ideas.
Not saying that such a scheme will work for you, but
it does for me.
StevenFebruary 2, 2010 at 11:52 pm #33140
>>>You also wrote, “But I’m starting to feel like LKL has
>>>the same shortcomings for psycho-sexual issues that Fusion
>>>once had–namely it has some great mechanical tools and
>>>can help complete certain things, but it doesn’t necessarily
>>>help you identify the underlying pattern/root; it doesn’t
>>>necessarily address the emotional feelings and/or give
>>>a voice to certain inner parts of self or help identify
>>>what the conflict is. I.E. I feel there’s some kind of
>>>yin component that’s missing.”
>>Are you able to elaborate more on missing a yin component?
I guess I’m referring to providing a “receptive space” to
allow the inner parts of self to express their frustrations
and/or “hear” the message that is yearning to be heard. Such
a receptive space would be one in which some kind of meeting
ground tailor-made for the sexual voices to come out of
hiding and present their feelings could be had. I haven’t
quite found the right venue yet.
In the non-sexual regime, an example might be MW’s Creation
Mandala in Fusion 1 that provides a safe place for
the shen to reveal their emotional frustrations . . .
so I guess I would mean some kind of similar yin space
for the sexual voices to present themselves as opposed to
just being cast into the blender (i.e. Kan-and-Li cauldron).
I don’t know if I’m making any sense.
All I know is I feel that something like this is missing,
but it’s hard to quantify.
The closest I’ve come on that level is to apply the
Focusing techniques as an outside supplement to LKL, but
it’s much trickier, as the sexual emotions and voices
tend to be considerably “more elusive” than those
inner “voices” that are vying for attention in the
non-sexual realm . . . Which I suppose is the reason
I mention trying to identify a yin space for them
to come out of hiding . . .
Of course, all this could be reflection of the
difficulty/challenge of the material and/or my skill
level is not yet attuned deep enough to “get at it”, i.e.
it just might take more practice. I’m still not sure yet.
But I guess I’m still also yet in the exploratory phase
of figuring out the right combination of tools to
pin down an effective strategy. Which is probably
the reason for instigating this discussion . . . to
become exposed to some fresh perspectives to help
shed “light” on this area.
At any rate, that’s about the best that I can
explain it . . . at this point anyway.
SFebruary 3, 2010 at 12:17 am #33142
To make a few additional comments on your post:
On your “Doing force” vs. “Thinking force” issue, you raise
a lot of interesting questions that I think I have to let
stew a bit, as I don’t have a useful response currently–but
the comments are valuable nonetheless.
>>>Some people say your mind “judge” is not your own
>>>but a foreign installation. The foreign mind is there
>>>to fixate your awareness on self importance
>>>and make your true mind submissive. It does that
>>>by interjecting thoughts and making you believe
>>>they are your own. Those thoughts create in each
>>>person a dichotomy, “well I want the ice cream
>>>but I am going to get fat.”. The dichotomy or opposing
>>>thoughts will then create those negative judgemental
>>>feelings you talked about.
Yes, I can identify with your ice cream example. 🙂
This is another valuable concept I’ll need to ponder.
>>>So if taken at face value, then with Fusion and
>>>the Kan and Li’s you are balancing out your emotions,
>>>sexual energy and also other heavenly energies
>>>but not adjusting your awareness to stop fixating
>>>on self importance. An example is why when I see
>>>that girl (guy, etc.) I automatically think of f’ing
>>>her brains out or why when I am chilling out thinking
>>>of nothing does a fantasy just pop into my mind?
>>>The simple answer is you must intend to stop the fixation
>>>of your awareness on your self and not to have a
>>>foreign installed mind. Through your intention of
>>>stopping the mind and other techniques like reviewing
>>>your life your awareness can change and not be fixated
>>>to enhance your self importance or put another way
>>>be fluid to fixate on the spot of the true mind
>>>without the ‘judge’.
I’m not sure what to feel about this, but then again,
I’m not looking necessarily to critique it.
More perspectives to throw into the pot is useful,
and then see what boils out. Interesting discussion.
>>>So if what some people say is true that
>>>the internalized dialog is not natural
>>>but a combination of external thought forms
>>>and internal energetic fixation then you are
>>>not truely the uncarved block yet. To still
>>>use the computer analogy you have a virus
>>>in your bios, which is a part of the hardware
>>>that is used to load the operating system.
I think this is 100% accurate.
Finding the virus to flush it is tricky, as
it is somewhat unclear what is just external
thought form pollution, as well as what is
intrinsic but is somehow hidden behind the clouds
of our own history.
>>>On a side note if anyone doesn’t know M. Chia
>>>has a dvd about reprogramming negative emotions
>>>which is newer and wasn’t taught up until a
>>>few years ago. It is a part of
>>>(the technique is part way in). I mention it
>>>because it incorporates a different facet
>>>of memorized emotions. He talks about removing
>>>the emotions and also the mental reference
>>>to it in the brain and organs. A key part is also
>>>the movement of your head.
Yeah, I know a little about it, but haven’t explored it
fully. My take–given the little I know about it
so far–is that it is an attempt to integrate some of
the cleansing process of REM sleep and some of the
concepts from EFT into the emotion clearing process.
Something to investigate further at some point.
>>>I hope I wrote coherently, there was a lot
>>>I was trying to fit in a finite space.
No problemo 🙂
I asked for input, and you gave it . . . in spades.
StevenFebruary 3, 2010 at 12:33 am #33144
I agree with your comments regarding a lot of inner
sexual tensional issues stemming from ancestral,
relationship, family, etc. type phenomena. It invokes
the interest and need to progress onward and upward
to Greater KL to gain tools to tackle those aspects
of psycho-sexual difficulties created by ghosts
from these pathways. It’s definitely part of the
story and shouldn’t be ignored either. Baby steps. 🙂
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