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Dear All,
This is the first time I visit this site and I have to say I’m shocked at some of the comments I’ve been reading on taoist practices and Winn’s teachings. It pains me to see something so dear and sacred to me being thrashed by people who apparently have read lots of books but who don’t seem to know their own heart. No matter how much denial there is and how much they are hidden within fancy, intellectual sophism, anger and hatred are strongly transmitted.
I have been doing the taoist practice for fifteen years; I started out with a male instructor who was trained directly by Chia. My experience at first was painful because the teachings were too forceful and too yang, but since it still gave me good results I persevered and then found a deeper and more spiritual path through Michael’s teachings. Going deeper into the taoist practice has allowed me to find my own path and true happiness in my heart.
I feel very fortunate to have found this practice after completing a thorough training as a psychoanalyst and after over ten years of personal analysis. I realized soon enough after completing my training as psychoanalyst that to make my process complete I had to work with my body. I did try other practices, like budism and tantra and yoga and I never felt satisfied until I found Taoism. The first time I did Inner Smile I was overwhelmed by joy. My heart was bursting with a loving energy such as I had never experienced before. For me, finding the taoist path was like finding my original home. Not one day has passed since then that I don’t thank the Universe for this priviledge and to this day I have nothing but appreciation for it.
My practice has become central to my life. I’m grateful that my previous personal experience in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy have helped me a lot in dealing with such inevitable issues as the unconscious mind and the ego. I have had the chance to know people all over the world, in Tao Garden and in Dao Mountain, as well as in my own country (no, I am not a U.S.Citizen)who have not gone through a personal process of self-knowldege, whatever the process might be. They start learning the practice and start having all sorts of issues with unconscious emotional stuff coming up to the surface. I also have had first hand experience in relating to men who boast about their supposed spiritual development, high energy and sexual abilities but who at the end of the day, are nothing but sophisticated versions of the typical male chauvinist. If so many women have told you about your “bad energy” Plato, wouldn’t it be a little more helpful for you to look into it? What I’m trying to say is: if you’re having problems with the practice, look at yourself and don’t go around blaming others or the practice itself.
I consider myself a taoist, not because I’ve been brainwashed by Michael Winn or anyone else; nor because it is trendy or because I’ve read lots of books and have decided intellectualy it is “the best”. I consider myself a taoist because, the way I experience it, taoism is the path without a path that lets you really go into the space within where you can merge with the whole. Everything is inside, the whole universe is inside. Thanks to my practice I am a better therapist, I am grounded thanks to Chi Kung, I am balanced and I can work with my emotions: not ignoring them, not being overwhelmed by them. For me it is very simple: I am happy and those around me benefit from what I radiate; I am very disciplined both in terms of my practice and in terms of working with De (virtue); I especially try to be a little more humble everyday.
In 2004 I went with Michael to China for the second time. This time the main attraction was the cave and also Tibet. Interestingly, the first hungry ghosts I found were in Lhasa, and not even in any temple… I had the opportunity of spending three days by myself in a single cave. It is difficult to put into words such a powerful and awesome experience. Some things are very clear though: throughout the whole time there I felt enveloped and protected by the cave as if it were a warm and nurturing mother who took me lovingly into her arms. Although I was fasting and even with little water I experienced no hunger or thirst. I can’t say I meditated but rather was meditated by the cave. Stubborn as I am I tried a couple of times to do my own practice but it clearly was not meant to be. Instead, I just gave in and then it was like being taken into a cocoon to travel through the universe. I slept with my back to the doorless entrance of the cave, never fearing or even thinking about potential danger. There were no strange visitors or unpleasant experiences(and I have had encounters with hungry ghosts many times in other places so I know what it’s like). Having gone through that sacred experience left me a treasure inside that is still, to this day, unfolding its radiance. This can only be understood by those who were also open to it. I don’t know if it is a question of having “clean chi”; as far as I am concerned, it is necessary to do inner house cleaning everyday. From experience I can say, though, that violations by incubus and sucubus, or hungry sexual ghosts, can happen anywhere, anytime, and it is up to a person to let them get away with it or not. Whether consciously or at an unconscious level, one needs to be open to such attacks. I’m sorry for those people whose experience in the caves was unfortunate but I strongly suggest they stop being victims and take responsibility for whatever inside of them allowed this to happen. Never underestimate the power of the unconscious mind!
Whether budist or taoist, to me the question is: how true is your intent?
May the Light be with you.Please re-read what you posted and see how your post is one giant non-sequiter masquerading as a relevant reply–whose only purpose is to express the random ramblings of your own mind because you have no clue how to still it.
See, I am debating two very specific issue with Michael Winn. That is the issue of semblance dharma, and the issue of virtue.
Winn does not even attempt to address either.
Neither do you.
< If so many women have told you about your "bad energy" Plato, < wouldn't it be a little more helpful for you to look into it? Women don't see many of men with a lot of sexual energy these days. And so, when they meet one, they immediately associate it as being "immoral" and "offensive". They think: "How dare him to have so much energy and my poor drained-up, excessively over masturbated boyfriend doesn't?" Of course, they will never do it consciously, yet they will attempt to talk to me about how man are perverse and dirty, and all they think about is sex, with all of this to express their hidden anger that I didn't give it up to one of them. Normally, I never replied to what they were saying because I wasnt listening.
Hi,
Now that was not very nice. Say you are sorry. What kind dharma or virtue is that?
It seems many here including Mr. Winn like a good debate. But you would fare better if you left out the barbs and insults and were nice instead. Looking just a bit silly now.
May peace find you in the night
Fox Hunter 🙂Hi “JEN”
Nice reply. First rule of this board, which I have visited regularly for YEARS!
Don’t take anything personally.Next thing you should know.
Not necessarily populated by HT practitioners, or even HT supporters.Nice to read your thoughts.
Much Love.
Craig
Plato,
Her post is relevant in regard to three aspects of your previous posts.
First, you had stated that everyone experienced fox spirits in those caves. I was surprised at that, and so asked Craig to comment on it. She and others have replied that they did not experience fox spirits there. They have added that since they have experienced such hungry ghosts in other contexts, you can’t suggest that they just aren’t sensitive to them. Their experiences thus disprove your generalizations.
Second, you have impugned Michael’s character directly and indirectly. She and others have replied to represent their very different experiences of Michael. They have given brief sprititual histories, I believe, to indicate that they are not neophytes and are not Michael’s “groupies”.
Third, some of their stories suggest and comment on virtuousness. For some reason you can’t hear that.
Finally, the issue of semblance dharma has been discussed by a number of people, such as SimonV and me, and you have not replied.
I stand by my original belief: this is something deeply personal between you and Michael. You both protest otherwise, and then turn around and shit on each other. Hmmm, contradictions bespeak lack of integration.
Oh, and why are we all so interested in this drama? Because most of us here are integrators, and this polarization between you and Michael is working at dividing our group pearl, and we work back to integrate it.
later,
Chris…And here I was… walking on the mountain trail, never minding anything, not bothering anyone. Suddenly, I felt a presence not far behind. I rested behind a big boulder to look…
He belonged to one of them “human” creatures that walk on two legs and make funny sounds with their mouth. Only this one was a bit different from the ones I used to see- much bigger, with a sickly whitish tint of his skin.
And so, I stopped looking and continued my journey, as I wasn’t interested in investing any of my precious time on strange, somewhat abnormal creatures. The human creature followed me with the grace of a constipated rabbit, and no matter how high I climbed up the mountain; he was right behind me, starring at my buttocks. “It might be one of those perverted ones that are attracted to our kind,” I thought to myself, remembering a conversation I had with another goat that escaped from the farm. “And if they do it to you against the cliff, you have no choice but push back,” the wise goats words stayed still in my head. I got to be careful this time”.
I run away. The weak human could keep up and I could see the disappointment on his strange ugly face right before I lost him from my view. I have never seen him again since. There are some rumors I heard from foxes that non of the animals were interested in playing with them, except for a few reptilian spirits pretending to be of celestial kind. There were also a few squirrels complaining they were missing 3 specially made coneturds. But then, it all is just a rumor .
Plato,
First: Does it not ever strike you as somewhat incongruous that you profess so much knowledge and inner calm and feel so much need to spew out so much bile?
And speaking of bile, I’ve got some of my own. And since Ive never professed inner calm or any particular knowledge, I feel perfectly comfortable letting rip, so pay attention:
We seem to be back, once again, to your dick being bigger than everyone else’s. (Since youre not a guy who seems to have any ability to understand metaphor, let me translate that: were back to your own childish self aggrandizement.)
Im speaking not so much about your recent snippy reply to jen (though it fits) but to youre post down below about Platos Cave.
So, now you’re so hot that ghosts travel all the way to Miami to try to have sex with you. If I remember correctly, in the past all the bitches and the hos those with the reptilian brains wanted you because you were such a High Status Male And anyone who didnt follow youre methods was a looser remember?
Now all the ghosts are after you because your chi is cleaner than . . . well, than all the losers who dont follow youre methods, right?
Frankly, I’m not sure which to be more surprised by: the fact that youre not using some of your High Status Male moves on these hungry ghosts, or the fact that a ravenous and powerful demon out for booty would be deterred by a dharma teaching from (let’s face it) a rank beginner.
Maybe youve given up on the High Status Male thing, since that little bit of misogyny was last years ABSOLUTE TRUTH that the rest of us would be FOOLS NOT TO FOLLOW. And now youve found Bodri, Nan & Co., this years ABSOLUTE TRUTH that the rest of us would be FOOLS NOT TO FOLLOW. (Nan has now apparently now displaced Michael Winn in youre universe of hero worship, Winn if I remember correctly being the last guy who told the ABSOLUTE TRUTH that we would all be FOOLS NOT TO FOLLOW).
Youre welcome to your journey, and youre welcome to grow in and out of practices and philosophies. You are even welcome to flit about every six to twelve months from one GREAT DISCOVERY to another.
But to constantly and bombastically trumpet your own knowledge and to personally attack anyone who isnt a disciple of your current fetish is irresponsible, hypocritical, non-compassionate and, frankly, a wee bit pathetic.
Heres an idea. On your next three or four posts, how about you try these things:
–DONT hurl an insult any anyone who disagrees with you
–DONT claim you know the truth about something and
–DO tell us something youre not sure of, havent mastered and are groping forAt the very least it will be a nice change of pace for you (and the rest of us).
p> the issue of semblance dharma, and the issue of virtue. >
Seems to me that jen addressed both of those as anyone has thus far in the conversation.
j> how true is your intent? >
What your jealousy comes down to is this:
I am a LEADER, and you are a FOLLOWER.
Eric B. and Rakim – Follow The Leader Lyrics
“Follow The Leader” By Eric B. & Rakim. (E. Barrier – W.
Griffin)Follow me into a solo, get in the flow,
And you could picture, like a photo,
Music makes mellow, maintains to make,
Melodies for MCs, motivates the breaks.
I’m everlasting; I can go on for days and days,
With rhyme displays that engrave deep as x-rays.
I can take a phrase that’s rarely heard,
Flip it… now it’s a daily word.
I can get illin’ at normal killin’,
Bambino along, Rakim’ll remain calm.
Self esteem make me super superb and supreme.
Before a microphone, still, I fiend.
This was a take, I wasn’t supposed to break,
I was supposed to wait, but let’s motivate.
I wanna see ’em keep followin’ and swallowin’,
Takin’ the makin’, bitin’ and borrowin’.
Brothers try and others die to get the formula,
But I’m a let ‘cha sweat. You still ain’t warm,
You a step away from frozen, stiff as if you’re posin’,
Dig into my brain as the rhyme gets chosen.
So follow me, and while you’re thinking you were first,
Let’s travel adventitious at speeds around the universe.
What could you say as the earth gets further and further away,
Planets as small as balls of clay?
Astray into the Milky Way, world’s out of sight,
As far as the eye can see, not even a satellite.
Now stop and turn around and look.
As you stare into the darkness, your knowledge: took!
So keep starin’, soon you suddenly see a star.
You better follow it ’cause it’s the “R.”
This is a lesson. If you’re guessin’ and if you’re borrowin’,
Hurry hurry step right up and keep followin’,
The Leader.Follow the leader.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Keep Followin’.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”This is a lifetime mission.
Vision a prison. All right, listen.
In this journey, you’re the journal, I’m the journalist.
Am I eternal or an eternalist?
I’m about to flow long as I can possibly go.
Keep you movin’ ’cause the crowd said so.
Dance! Cuts rip your pants.
Eric B. on the blades, bleedin’ death. Call an ambulance!
Pull out my weapon and start to squeeze,
A magnum as a microphone, murderin’ MCs.
Let’s quote a rhyme from a record I wrote:
“Follow the Leader!” …Yeah, dope!
‘Cause every time I stop, you see, just duck.
As soon as you try to step off you self-destruct.
I came to overcome before I’m gone,
By showin’ and provin’ and lettin’ knowledge be born.
Then after that I’ll live forever. You disagree?
You say, “Never?” Then follow me,
From century to century, you’ll remember me,
In history, not a mystery or a memory.
Called by nature, mind raised in Asia,
Since you was tricked, I had to raise ya,
From the cradle to the grave.
But remember, you’re not a slave.
‘Cause we were put here to be much more than that,
But we couldn’t see because our mind was trapped.
But I’m here to break away the chains, take away the pains,
Remake the brains, rebuild my name.
Again, somebody told you, a little knowledge is dangerous.
It can’t be mixed, diluted, it can’t be changed with a,
Switch. Here’s a lesson if you’re guessin’, if you’re
borrowin’,
Hurry hurry step right up and keep followin’,
The Leader.Follow the leader.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”A fear if I freestyle lyrics-a-fury,
My third eye make me shine like jury.
You’re just a rented rapper, you’re rhymes are minute-maid,
I’ll be here when they fade, I’ll watch you flip like a
renegade.
I can’t wait to break and eliminate,
On every trade of my snake so stay awake.
And follow and follow ’cause the tempo’s a trail,
The stage is a cage, the mic is a third rail.
I’m Rakim, the fiend of a microphone.
I’m not him, so leave my mic alone.
Soon as the beat is felt, I’m ready to go,
So fasten your seatbelt ’cause I’m about to flow.
No need to speed, slow down and let the leader lead.
Word to Daddy… Indeed!
The “R’s” a rollin’ stone, so I’m rollin’,
Directs the tone then rhymes are stolen.
Stop buggin’! A brother said, “Dig him?” I never dug him.
He couldn’t follow the leader long enough so I drug him.
It’s a danger zone, he should arrange his own,
Face it, to space it, grace it, change the tone.
There’s one “R” in the alphabet.
It’s a one letter word and it’s about to get,
More complex from one rhyme to the next.
Eric B., be easy on the flex.
I’ve been from state to state. Follow us. Tailgate.
Keep comin’, but you came too late, but I’ll wait.
So back up your group, get a grip, come equipped.
You’re the next contestant. Clap your hands. You won a trip.
The price is right. Don’t make a deal too soon.
How many notes? Could you name this tune?
“Follow the Leader” is a title they task.
Now you know; you don’t have to ask.
Rappers’ rhythm and poetry, cuts create sound effects.
You might get junked if you follow the records he wrecks.
Until then, keep eatin’ and swallowin’.
You better take a deep breath and keep followin’
The Leader.Follow the leader.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Keep followin’.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
The “R!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Peace.”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Follow the leader.
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!” Rakim’ll say, “Follow the
leader!”
Rakim’ll say, “Follow the leader!”
Follow the leader!
**Kaboom!**A really really really big one.
Thanks for the response. I can’t imagine how you could have proved my point better than with that.
Nice to see a bit of levity once in a while.
Inner smiles are all well and good but a nice belly laugh was had upon reading this silly essay.
Mike is no mountain goat, but I would be hard pressed to find a better navigator of step nearly non existent mountain trails in sheer granite.
Also this particular two legger is ridiculously tan for a white guy 🙂
From one who knows – Paleface in Oregon.
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