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What I am suggesting is that you posted a nice practice and you might expand it by 1) working with all the bones in your body and 2) also concentrating on your coccyx. And you might further refine it by becoming aware of your heart beat. And yes, bone breathing and compression and the sacral pump have been fully covered by Chia and Winn.
> Experiment, enjoy, and – again – I’d be interested to hear once you’ve tried this out>
Thank you for your invitation.
> When first practicing this integration its an especially important period to be compassionate, spacious, and steadily present with your self>
I guess you’ve been doing this for a while.
Trip
Keith,
This is lovely, I just tried it. But isn’t it really a subset of the bone breathing Chia (and Michael, if I remember) teach: squeeze your muscles gently into your bones and then relax. You’ll feel the whole bone / skeleton start to breathe and later the pulse of your heart in the marrow. Putting your smile / attention at the tip of your coccyx can also start some nice skeletal pulsing.
Trip
In addition to Chris’s good advice, you can also learn how to use your eyes and mouth to help contract the anus. This is something Eric coves pretty well in his 100 Days book, which I would recommend. See specifically the parts about all the ring muscles being connected.
Keith,
You are unquestionably one of the “good” guys. Who among us can match your reserves of care, dedication, patience and compassion? You broadcast these over and over, while I, for one, seldom have the time or even the interest to post. Yet I have learned Mega from everyone here. So please excuse me for once more returning to your post, perhaps in the spirit of ‘no good deed goes unpunished.’
You wrote: “For me, basically, this is not about attacking nor defending Chia, nor myself, nor any other. It’s about clarification for our own and others’ benefit.”
I don’t think so. What about: “The emperor has no clothes”?
To me that sounds more like the beginning of an attack than a clarification.
What about: “Now, both that title and the analogy are about the worst things a person could give for practical instruction. That view, employed in practice, will injure a large percentage of students. You almost couldn’t give someone instructions that’ll lead more directly to injury”?
That certainly sounds like an attack to me. Or wouldn’t you agree?
What about: “I came up with a very succinct description of the presentations in the products that are sold under Chia’s name: basically selling sensation and calling it “Taoism”… It is a very marketable strategy, certain to be popular, certain to be sensational yet to lead to no great resolutions (keeps people interested in more, more, more), and is just as certain to lead to injury for the vast majority of those that practice it dedicatedly for any great length of time”?
Well I never thought I’d be quoting Ronnie (the other one) but, “there you go again.” You sum up the work of someone who’s been practicing for 45-50 years (hey, how old are you?) with YOUR sound bite, then continue as if YOUR PUT-DOWN were the truth, pontificating on Chia’s marketing strategy leading to CERTAIN injury for just about everyone.
And then you add: I don’t know why he does it!!!
Please.
What you’ve written is nothing but an attack, and you’re entitled to attack Chia any time you want. But why should Chia include passages in HIS Tan Tien Chi Kung book on what YOU consider “the essential wisdom”?
“No-self, the deep-center of the tan tien, Emptiness and light” — these are your babies, your themes, not those of Chia’s Tan Tien Chi Kung. Don’t let their absence make you see red. See red in the energy that flows from the North Star/Big Dipper, or the leather of your new Porsche, or the cherry hue of your sweet thing’s lips.
How arrogant you become when you pin the word “the” in front of “essential wisdom,” and then allow that maybe, just maybe you didn’t find THAT wisdom because of your cursory read.
Who appointed you the white knight, the protector (“bad for students, bad for Taoism, bad for the world”), the savior to keep us all from CERTAIN injury?
Please.
Maybe, like Nicholas Cage in “Bringing Out the Dead,” the person you really need to save is yourself. I won’t go any further here because I know how intelligent you are, how aware you are of the “ambiguities” of your position. But lay off Chia for not giving you what you want or need. Find your own answers, apply them selfishly, let the world turn without you tonight.
I liked Spyrelx’s post (above) a lot.
Personally, I think Chia is like Miles Davis. It doesn’t matter whether Miles was playing in the 60s, 70s or 80s: the music behind him may have changed radically, but when you listen, Miles is always Miles.
So Chia no longer teaches packing as part of Iron Shirt, but (I guess) is now reintroducing parts of it in Tan Tien Chi Kung (it’s certainly not the focus of the practice). You react by saying Jesus, hasn’t this man learned his lesson yet? But I’d say Chia is reintroducing the practice because in his 45-50 years of experience he thinks there’s something important there that his students should know, and he’s been searching for a new form to communicate this knowledge.
At his seminar six weeks ago, Chia explained that Tan Tien Chi Kung emphasized the psoas muscle, the lower abdomen and, 1000% most importantly, the front and back kua’s, which, he continued, were the most difficult parts of the body to open.
When he was learning Chi Kung and Tai Chi, he told us, his master(s) would tell him to keep practicing and practicing and one day he would “get it.” Later he realized that “getting it” meant learning how to open the kua and transfer the force.
Chia believes you need this knowledge to be able to do Standing Chi Kung and/or Tai Chi well. He also believes that, having a superior knowledge of anatomy available to him than his master(s) had, he can help his students “get” opening the kua much faster than he could.
All of the dragon/tiger breathing and (gentle) pushing down is meant to (gently) expand the lower abdomen in all directions like a giant bowl, which helps the kua to open. At the same time you also “screw” your feet into the ground, which helps open the kua further. And you pull up on your anus, which also helps open the kua.
You really have to study with Chia (or a teacher who knows) to get the breathing and pushing and twisting. Reading about the practice in the Tan Tien Chi Kung book won’t do you much good until you’ve got the basic movement and breathing. And the twelve animal positions are merely embellishments on a theme.
—
Okay, ‘nough said. I’ve got to go to work. I wish it were as warm in Zurich as it is in L.A. Take carev and enjoy,
Trip
Keith,
You are unquestionably one of the “good” guys. Who among us can match your reserves of care, dedication, patience and compassion? You broadcast these over and over, while I, for one, seldom have the time or even the interest to post. Yet I have learned Mega from everyone here. So please excuse me for once more returning to your post, perhaps in the spirit of ‘no good deed goes unpunished.’
You wrote: “For me, basically, this is not about attacking nor defending Chia, nor myself, nor any other. It’s about clarification for our own and others’ benefit.”
I don’t think so. What about: “The emperor has no clothes”?
To me that sounds more like the beginning of an attack than a clarification.
What about: “Now, both that title and the analogy are about the worst things a person could give for practical instruction. That view, employed in practice, will injure a large percentage of students. You almost couldn’t give someone instructions that’ll lead more directly to injury”?
That certainly sounds like an attack to me. Or wouldn’t you agree?
What about: “I came up with a very succinct description of the presentations in the products that are sold under Chia’s name: basically selling sensation and calling it “Taoism”… It is a very marketable strategy, certain to be popular, certain to be sensational yet to lead to no great resolutions (keeps people interested in more, more, more), and is just as certain to lead to injury for the vast majority of those that practice it dedicatedly for any great length of time”?
Well I never thought I’d be quoting Ronnie (the other one) but, “there you go again.” You sum up the work of someone who’s been practicing for 45-50 years (hey, how old are you?) with YOUR sound bite, then continue as if YOUR PUT-DOWN were the truth, pontificating on Chia’s marketing strategy leading to CERTAIN injury for just about everyone.
And then you add: I don’t know why he does it!!!
Please.
What you’ve written is nothing but an attack, and you’re entitled to attack Chia any time you want. But why should Chia include passages in HIS Tan Tien Chi Kung book on what YOU consider “the essential wisdom”?
“No-self, the deep-center of the tan tien, Emptiness and light” — these are your babies, your themes, not those of Chia’s Tan Tien Chi Kung. Don’t let their absence make you see red. See red in the energy that flows from the North Star/Big Dipper, or the leather of your new Porsche, or the cherry hue of your sweet thing’s lips.
How arrogant you become when you pin the word “the” in front of “essential wisdom,” and then allow that maybe, just maybe you didn’t find THAT wisdom because of your cursory read.
Who appointed you the white knight, the protector (“bad for students, bad for Taoism, bad for the world”), the savior to keep us all from CERTAIN injury?
Please.
Maybe, like Nicholas Cage in “Bringing Out the Dead,” the person you really need to save is yourself. I won’t go any further here because I know how intelligent you are, how aware you are of the “ambiguities” of your position. But lay off Chia for not giving you what you want or need. Find your own answers, apply them selfishly, let the world turn without you tonight.
I liked Spyrelx’s post (above) a lot.
Personally, I think Chia is like Miles Davis. It doesn’t matter whether Miles was playing in the 60s, 70s or 80s: the music behind him may have changed radically, but when you listen, Miles is always Miles.
So Chia no longer teaches packing as part of Iron Shirt, but (I guess) is now reintroducing parts of it in Tan Tien Chi Kung (it’s certainly not the focus of the practice). You react by saying Jesus, hasn’t this man learned his lesson yet? But I’d say Chia is reintroducing the practice because in his 45-50 years of experience he thinks there’s something important there that his students should know, and he’s been searching for a new form to communicate this knowledge.
At his seminar six weeks ago, Chia explained that Tan Tien Chi Kung emphasized the psoas muscle, the lower abdomen and, 1000% most importantly, the front and back kua’s, which, he continued, were the most difficult parts of the body to open.
When he was learning Chi Kung and Tai Chi, he told us, his master(s) would tell him to keep practicing and practicing and one day he would “get it.” Later he realized that “getting it” meant learning how to open the kua and transfer the force.
Chia believes you need this knowledge to be able to do Standing Chi Kung and/or Tai Chi well. He also believes that, having a superior knowledge of anatomy available to him than his master(s) had, he can help his students “get” opening the kua much faster than he could.
All of the dragon/tiger breathing and (gentle) pushing down is meant to (gently) expand the lower abdomen in all directions like a giant bowl, which helps the kua to open. At the same time you also “screw” your feet into the ground which helps open the kua further. And you pull up on your anus, which also helps open the kua.
You really have to study with Chia (or a teacher who knows) to get the breathing and pushing and twisting. Reading about the practice in the Tan Tien Chi Kung book won’t do you much good until you’ve got the basic movement and breathing. And the twelve animal positions are merely embellishments on a theme.
Okay, ‘nough said. I’ve got to go to work. I wish it were as warm in Zurich as it is in L.A. Take care,
Trip
Keith,
You couldn’t be more wrong. I’ve taken Tan Tien Chi Kung from M. Chia twice, and it’s a lovely practice. And, as taught, quite gentle. It’s purpose is to open the kua, and the Dragon/Tiger breathing accomplishes this quite nicely.
In fairness to you, I’d have to say that you can’t fully “get” the practice by just reading the book. You have to study it with Chia or someone who understands.
But your reaction is telling.
Why don’t you review some of the stuff on your own web site.
For example you write pages on Chia’s Iron Shirt II, but (once again) completely miss the point. As Chia explains on the video, you use your heartbeat and Yi to open each joint. The heartbeat is the key; without this foundation you’re just stretching the tendons. Yet (and forgive me if you’ve updated your site since last I looked) there’s nothing about this in your so-called summary. Do you really think you’ve done anyone a service by “translating” M. Chia?
Another example: you “published” James’s warning on the potential dangers of packing, but somehow failed to include his even more inspiring follow-up describing how useful and beneficial the practice is. Was that post too inconvenient for your world view?
I know you mean well but the words “he’s butchering a wonderful tradition” apply much more to you than M. Chia.
I value the teacher who changes as little as necessary. Let’s preserve what we’ve got and hope that those who came before and those who come after haven’t and won’t fuck it up too badly. We don’t need the practices diluted by well meaning but ultimately ignorant practitioners such as yourself (or me).
If all that remained of the Iron Shirt Tendon work, packing and (presumably) Tan Tien Chi Kung were what you’ve written on your web site, then these practices would be gone forever. And people might read your site and spend weeks, months or even years of senseless practice.
I completely respect your right to practice what you think safe and right, to pick and choose. But for God’s sake get off your high horse.
Keith,
You couldn’t be more wrong. I’ve taken Tan Tien Chi Kung from M. Chia twice, and it’s a lovely practice. And, as taught, quite gentle. It’s purpose is to open the kua, and the Dragon/Tiger breathing accomplishes this quite nicely.
In fairness to you, I’d have to say that you can’t fully “get” the practice by just reading the book. You have to study it with Chia or someone who understands.
But your reaction is telling.
Why don’t you review some of the stuff on your own web site.
For example you write pages on Chia’s Iron Shirt II, but (once again) completely miss the point. As Chia explains on the video, you use your heartbeat and Yi to open each joint. The heartbeat is the key; without this foundation you’re just stretching the tendons. Yet (and forgive me if you’ve updated your site since last I looked) there’s nothing about this in your so-called summary. Do you really think you’ve done anyone a service by “translating” M. Chia?
Another example: you “published” James’s warning on the potential dangers of packing, but somehow failed to include his even more inspiring follow-up describing how useful and beneficial the practice can be. Was that post too inconvenient for your world view?
I know you mean well but the words “he’s butchering a wonderful tradition” apply much more to you than M. Chia.
I value the teacher who changes as little as necessary. Let’s preserve what we’ve got and hope that those who came before and those who come after haven’t and won’t fuck it up too badly. We don’t need the practices diluted by well meaning but ultimately ignorant practitioners such as yourself (or me).
If all that remained of the Iron Shirt Tendon work, packing and (presumably) Tan Tien Chi Kung were what you’ve written on your web site, then these practices would be gone forever. And people might read your site and spend weeks, months or even years of senseless practice.
I completely respect your right to practice what you think safe and right, to pick and choose. But for God’s sake get off your high horse.
