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December 14, 2005 at 8:35 pm #9360MisoParticipant
Snowlion: sure, if you’d be willing to talk outside of this forum I would appreciate it. I don’t really want to post my information publically, however, so it would be up to you to offer yours (I’m not sure how it works on this board, since I just leaped right in here, perhaps a bit rudely). When you say you “self-balanced . . . from a terminal path,” do you mean that you cured yourself of a terminal disease? I am quite interested. Thanks.
–MisoDecember 14, 2005 at 8:52 pm #9362MisoParticipantgosh! Thank you for your thoughts, though I must say at some point my powers of concentration lagged, so I didn’t get all of them. However I did read parts of Mr. Li’s book. I am not at all well-versed in Asian philosophy, and my interest in chi gung really stemmed from two things: a strong interest in alternative health and a strong desire to rid myself of health problems. Thus my interest is secular, and falun gong is NOT. Your philosophical engagement with the text is impressive, but my reasons for rejecting it are in part based on the fact that it is indeed such a text by which one is supposed to live, without questioning, and this in itself does not work for me. Also, perhaps unlike many on this board (I don’t know since I just got here), spirituality probably hasn’t been my strong point, and, while it seems to have suddenly caught up with me and stared me in the face, it is difficult for me to deal with. That said, the last thing I’m going to adopt is a philosophy that calls human bodies “filthy” and seems to reject sensuousness in favor of a desire for death (transcendence). (Oddly, however, Li’s insistence on bodily purificaction doesn’t seem to extend to food, as he “lets”–eek– you eat what you want, as the other falun gong people gleefully pointed out to health-food oriented me).
I too felt the energy very strongly while doing the exercises, reading the book, and even spending time (3 times) with the other people. I also think there is something to it, and right now secular, intellectual me is actually scared that there is indeed a falun rotating in my abdomen (i’m having strange abdominal symptoms) when I don’t want there to be. What I decided, though, is that even if Li could take away my diseases, I’d much rather have illness along with real, sensuous human life than subject myself to his mind control. I need to be an empowered being, after all, and human, rather than spiritual matter. –misoDecember 14, 2005 at 10:54 pm #9364Faceless-MageParticipantwell miso,
i to have that feeling you have as if there was something to falun gong because i know what i felt when i did the falun dafa exercises and there was one day where my body literally felt like it was on fire- mr li made reference to this as saying there will be a day when one is very sensitive and later one will not have such a feeling.so right now- half of me believes in falun gong and the other half believes in taoism .
i don’t have a choice in being like this because i found flaws in the philosophy of zhuan falun.
there can be these possibilities
(1) zhuan falun was a genuine cultivation text written by mr li but someone else added things to it and made it corrupt .
(2) the falun dafa exercises are real chi kung forms that can make one into a buddha/immortal/god .
but because the cultivation of xing xing ( mind nature ) goes hand in hand with the exercises, it’s impossible for me to know if doing the exercises really work since i can’t prove that zhuan falun really is mr li’s works and have reached the conclusion that it all makes no sense . I just really have a bad feeling about what i’m doing by coming back to taoism because of the things i experienced while practicing it and also because someone from the healing tao message board said something really weird to me. he/she said when they did falun gong for the first time- early heaven shen came rushing into them and their caludron expanded to fill the entire universe. then they did the exercise again and claimed to see a falun spinnin in them, then they did the exercise again and say mr li’s face smiling at them .
so it’s like i’m stuck in a cartoon or something where what seems to be real simply goes to a realm of who knows what – seems a little like playing that game calle metal gear solid and really listening to what solid snake says as the game plays out .have a nice day
January 1, 2006 at 6:57 pm #9366WilberKEMAIMemberadsfasdfsadf
January 25, 2006 at 9:44 am #9368dilipParticipantFriend,
… just listen to the lectures on this website you will understand the cultivation way of Falun Dafa a lot better…http://www.falundafa.org/bul/lectures/index.htm#video
… Falun Dafa is a cultivation way and isnt just a set of movements… and I believe that you cant understand a cultivation way by just trying the exercise or by listening to what other people say… Please inquire explore and understand for yourself… you will find everything you need to know from the lectures… mp3s of the lectures are available here on
http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm#GUANGZHOU
… everything is explained very clearly in the lectures… and I believe there is no need to ask other people for “advice”….
I myself have been practicing Falun Gong and find the benefits are just immense… and you yourself would have experienced it in the first few days itself…
May 9, 2007 at 2:05 pm #9370Faceless-MageParticipantyo Miso ( or anyone else who reads thay stuff i wrote about falun dafa )
that stuff i said about errors in falun gong- it wasn’t my intention to say that the way i wrote it – it was just some thoughts i had back then
i was only intending to state what i believed but what i said may be incorrect since there may have been perspectives in falun dafa that i didn’t look at concerning what i wrote
so it’s best to get your own opinion and read the books yourself.
if you want the truth – go read the falun dafa books, they’re free on the website http://www.falundafa.orgMay 9, 2007 at 2:08 pm #9372Faceless-MageParticipantyo Miso ( or anyone else who reads thay stuff i wrote about falun dafa )
that stuff i said about errors in falun gong- it wasn’t my intention to say that the way i wrote it – it was just some thoughts i had back then
i was only intending to state what i believed but what i said may be incorrect since there may have been perspectives in falun dafa that i didn’t look at concerning what i wrote
so it’s best to get your own opinion and read the books yourself.
if you want the truth – go read the falun dafa books, they’re free on the website http://www.falundafa.orgMay 9, 2007 at 2:08 pm #9374Faceless-MageParticipantyo Miso ( or anyone else who reads thay stuff i wrote about falun dafa )
that stuff i said about errors in falun gong- it wasn’t my intention to say that the way i wrote it – it was just some thoughts i had back then
i was only intending to state what i believed but what i said may be incorrect since there may have been perspectives in falun dafa that i didn’t look at concerning what i wrote
so it’s best to get your own opinion and read the books yourself.
if you want the truth – go read the falun dafa books, they’re free on the website http://www.falundafa.orgMay 20, 2007 at 1:58 am #9376Faceless-MageParticipantit’s best to check out the books of falun dafa yourself instead of taking anything i ( facelessmage ) wrote as being absolutely true of falun dafa.
some of what i said was intended to be specific viewpoints but as it turned out – the effects seemed to not be good as it sounded like i was saying bad things about falun dafa.
again- read the falun dafa books, they’re free on the website — http://www.falundafa.org
the truth of Falun dafa the teachings can only be grasped if one studies falun dafaMay 20, 2007 at 2:20 am #9378Faceless-MageParticipantit’s best to check out the books of falun dafa yourself instead of taking anything i ( facelessmage ) wrote as being absolutely true of falun dafa.
some of what i said was intended to be specific viewpoints but as it turned out – the effects seemed to not be good as it sounded like i was saying bad things about falun dafa which i don’t want to do
again- read the falun dafa books, they’re free on the website — http://www.falundafa.org
the truth of Falun dafa the teachings can only be grasped if one studies falun dafaJune 8, 2008 at 1:43 pm #9380FacelessMageParticipantFor this post that i made, i suggest that anyone who reads it go to the falundafa.org website and get your own understanding of the practice. Back when i made that post i really wasn’t in a good mood and just wrote whatever i felt.
I don’t want to say bad things about anyone’s cultivation ways so don’t regard what i said about Falun Dafa in that post as being true. Get your own understanding of Falun Dafa from the practice it’s FREE on the website http://www.falundafa.orgHere’s that ost i was talking about :
well miso,
i to have that feeling you have as if there was something to falun gong because i know what i felt when i did the falun dafa exercises and there was one day where my body literally felt like it was on fire- mr li made reference to this as saying there will be a day when one is very sensitive and later one will not have such a feeling.so right now- half of me believes in falun gong and the other half believes in taoism .
i don’t have a choice in being like this because i found flaws in the philosophy of zhuan falun.
there can be these possibilities
(1) zhuan falun was a genuine cultivation text written by mr li but someone else added things to it and made it corrupt .
(2) the falun dafa exercises are real chi kung forms that can make one into a buddha/immortal/god .
but because the cultivation of xing xing ( mind nature ) goes hand in hand with the exercises, it’s impossible for me to know if doing the exercises really work since i can’t prove that zhuan falun really is mr li’s works and have reached the conclusion that it all makes no sense . I just really have a bad feeling about what i’m doing by coming back to taoism because of the things i experienced while practicing it and also because someone from the healing tao message board said something really weird to me. he/she said when they did falun gong for the first time- early heaven shen came rushing into them and their caludron expanded to fill the entire universe. then they did the exercise again and claimed to see a falun spinnin in them, then they did the exercise again and say mr li’s face smiling at them .
so it’s like i’m stuck in a cartoon or something where what seems to be real simply goes to a realm of who knows what – seems a little like playing that game calle metal gear solid and really listening to what solid snake says as the game plays out .have a nice day
June 8, 2008 at 1:49 pm #9382FacelessMageParticipantFor this post that i made, i suggest that anyone who reads it go to the falundafa.org website and get your own understanding of the practice. Back when i made that post i really wasn’t in a good mood and just wrote whatever i felt.
I don’t want to say bad things about anyone’s cultivation ways so don’t regard what i said about Falun Dafa in that post as being true. Get your own understanding of Falun Dafa from the practice it’s FREE on the website http://www.falundafa.orgHere’s that post i was talking about :
Well Miso
i don’t know what to tell you as that is something you have to decide for yourself.
i used to practice Falun Dafa for about 2 years – i haven’t come to the conclusion that i’ve turned away from it i only returned to Taoism because some of the things mr li hongzhi said make absolutely no sense to me and i can’t see myself following something that doesn’t make any sense to me.
I’m absolutely not trying to say anything bad about falun gong but this is the truth i observed based on my experience of practicing falun gong and that truth is still disturbing me and made me unable to get a good night’s sleep for weeks . When i did the exercises to the great consummation way of dafa, i fell an extremely tremendous amount of heat come onto my body and i also felt the falun rotating when i did the falun standing stance.
The first exercise i did in falun dafa was the falun heavenly circuit and lo and behold – something really weird happened – i had the same feeling around my neck that i had when i did the taoist fusion 3 practice of opening the thrusting and belt channels- it felt like some kind of invisible, magnetic force with different layers- that’s the best way i can describe it .
since i felt something i knew that it must have been real – but this later lead to my inevitable, perhaps temporary return to taoism ( unless i can prove taoism wrong )
what forced me to return to and analyze taoism was some of the things in the book zhuan falun and falun gong supposedly written by falun gong’s founder mr li hongzhi.
allow me to explain.
These aren’t mr li’s actual words ( don’t have time now to go into the book to find them )
Fact (1) mr li said – do good things and you gain virtue or “de” and do bad things you gain karma or “yeli”
Fact (2) mr li said the goal of cultivation is to attain the dao and reach spiritual perfection
Fact (3) mr li said people fell off from a divine state and when they drop to this dimension of delusion they were supposed to be destroyed if looked at in terms of abilities OR from the stand point of the great enlightened beings ( the gods that didn’t fall off )
Fact (4) mr li said, to succeed in cultivation one has to follow no second discipline because it will make a mess of one’s gong ( cultivation energy )When all these facts are examined – it’s leads to an inevitable conclusion that to know the truth one has to enlighten on their own.
how do i know this?
simple
for fact (4) which i mentioned earlier
this i what i have observed:
I am not mr li- therefore i do not know his thoughts. i have never known or seen mr li- therefore i do not know anything he did in his life outside the apparent realm of cultivation besides give lectures . Now,if i didn’t write the book zhuan falun and do not know the thoughts of mr li – how can i know that zhuan falun isn’t a book made up of messages from other cultivation ways ?for facts (1-3)
in fact (3) the OR implies that the dao has a principle of destroying gods that fell off – if that was not so, what was he referring to? he couldn’t possibly be referring to demons in terms of what happens when one aligns with/ maintains alignment with good because demons are by their apparent natrure against goodness,
now with fact (1) and fact (2) if that’s true according to what mr li believes, then the tao/buddha law itself in his view must be something that is ONLY GOOD because if it wasn’t, there’d be no logic in him telling his followers to not do bad things and to treat negative thoughts as not being ours so that his Fa-Shen ( law bodies ) can eliminate them for us.
now,what’s disturbing to me is this:if the Tao/Buddha law is GOOD, why would it have a principle that GODS must be destroyed if they drop to the realm of humans by doing evil. ?
that does not make any sense in terms of goodness and i’ll explain why.as a hypothetical example, let’s assume that I was an ALL GOOD GOD.
if that were so, it would have been impossible for me to do evil to something eles because if i could, i would not be ALL GOOD.
now, free will is a characteristic that allows one to do evil because without free will one cannot act of their own will and therefore cannot do good or evil .
if the tao is perfect accoring to mr li – then it would know that with free will one can do good or do evil and therefore align with good or evil.
but once again hypothetically speaking, if i leave marbles on a floor and someone decided to act like a dam fool and jump on them, fall, break their neck and die- that would be the same as me having done something bad although i did not directly do something to the person who died.
As another example, if John is fighting BOB and i give BOB a gun and he kills John with it, who’s responsible for the murder?
in essence there are 2 people responsible for the murder.
first bob is because he killed john out of free will
second, i would be responsible as well although i did not kill john. the reason i’d be responsible is because i made the situation possible for someone with free will to do something evil or in other words to act according to a certain polarity. therefore The true tao doesn’t act in relation to polarity and therefore must be neutral in relation to polarity although it may contain polarity.
going back to the tao according to how it is in mr li’s views , if it truly was only good it never would have created GODS with free will because it would be responsible for the evil things they did .
Mr li said in a question the someone asked that we exist for the truth of buddha law/tao.- if that’s true, TELL ME- if the dao is all good, how could the dao possibly make gods with free will and then punish them with destruction when it gave them the free will to do good or evil ?
if we exist for the truth of buddha law and it’s all good according to mr li then buddha law/dao only could have created GOOD Gods with NO FREE WILL, therefore making it impossible for them to fall off and not live up to the essence of the Dao or in other words, exist for its truth.Mr li himself said that parents themselves will have to suffer for the sins of their children when they do not properly raise and discipline them . Since the dao, according to master li created living environments for all the beings in the universe, isn’t it then in falun gong regarded as the origin or the uiniverse?
So doesn’t what i said mr li said in the sentence above contradict what mr li has been teaching about the tao ( fact 1-3 ) when the essence of the tao mr li taught when analyzed according to other things mr li taught or according to one’s own free thinking logic leads to the inevitable conclusion that it all makes absolutely no sense ?
This is why last week i started re-thinking about taoism and expecially taoist cosmology .
Now Miso, in relation to which cultivation way to follow- I absolutely don’t know because i can find flaws in all of them. it’s up to you to decide what you want for yourself. What i belive i must do is enlighten on my own Based on things that apply to me ( such as being able to read/not being able to read or being able to use tianmu ( third eye/ not being able to use tianmu ) and do a cultivation way that has phenomena ( such as energy related states/feelings) which conforms to what i’ve enlightened to because there seems to be no other choice.it’s impossible to know if zhuan falun was written by mr li since i was not him and can’t read his mind and because of that it’s impossible to know according to the principle mr li taught about following one cultivation way only if zhuan falun isn’t a books of mixed ideas from different cultivation ways. i can’t disregard what i said because in zhuan falun mr li makes reference to Buddha Shakyamuni’s ” no ;aw is absolute” and he also made reference to Lao Tzu’s words in the tao te ching from chapter 41 in the tao te ching whhich is
“When superior students hear of the Tao
They strive to practice it.
When middling students hear of the Tao
They sometimes keep it and sometimes lose it.
When inferior students hear of the Tao
They have a big laugh.”
now, what i really have a hard time beliving is the fact that mr li said that only a buddha can offer salvation to sentient beings since a greater buddha would change the way of things in the world with just one word.
mr li said he has a falun paradise, therefore according to that statement he must be a buddha or a god or something that’s not human but lives forever and has divine powers since he said only those at the buddha level have paradises of their own and since he also said his LAW BODIES are an embodiment of his divine powers and wisdom – WE ALL KNOW WHAT DIVINE MEANS.
now, the words buddha means an enlightened person through cultivation, mr li himself said in zhuan falun that cultivation ways of the past didn’t allow their disciples to come across the teachings of other schools of cultivation to prevent contaminating their minds with messages from other cultivation ways and therefore making it impossible for them to acttain salvation because of his apparent NO SECOND DISCIPLINE notion.
Now, if mr li was a buddha, he would have boundless wisdom at least conforming to his level since he said one’s level determines their wisdom.
so, what i find hard to believe is, how could he make reference to the words of other cultivation ways?
If the NO SECOND DISCIPLINE notion was true, wouldn’t a buddha not say things from other cultivation ways in their discipline since there is the potential that some adept whether experienced or unexperienced can read those words and have them memorized unintentionally or intentionally by constantly reading them when they read zhuan falun?
not only does that stuff exist in zhuan falun, it exist in his other lectures as well- i don’t remember exactly but i do remember him talking about the phases of matter in the pure daoist opinion in taoist cosmology- things like bagua and tai chi and the wuji and how things come into existence etc .i hope this helps you Miso on what my view of Falun Gong has become. I have way too much to say so i’ll stop here because if i continue – it might get so confusing you may not understand what i’m talking about .
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