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Daoman, we are on the same page.
Another way of saying it: the seeming long path is in fact the short cut, because the short cuts never arrive fully at their intended destination.
Rideforever, I appreciate your intent and desire to accelerate spiritual growth. So its really just a question of practicality: how to we achieve it?
There is a level of conceptual perspective that is helpful. Let me share with you the Taoist notion of the difference between Enlightenment and Immortality.
You are talking about sudden enlightenment, the light bulb of expanding consciousness suddenly being switched on.
Enlightenment in the Taoist tradition starts from the head, and then TRIES to move down. It shines its light down, but is the frequency of the light able to change the frequency of one’s jing, one’s bodily essence/DNA? This is the problem. This is why folks claiming spiritual enlightenment often have disease and screwed up physical lives despite their claim to living in bliss. Their intent is good – but they lack sufficient grounding to manifest that intent.
Immortality cultivation begins in the lower dantian – our center of greatest density and thus resistance – and gradually moves up. Why? It’s like building a house. YOu begin with the foundation, then the walls, and put the roof on last. Then you have a PERMANENT VESSEL for hold your gradually advancing spiritual energy. Then you have an Energy Body that is solid enough that you can travel with it after physical death.
So Enlightenment can be sudden, but it mostly does NOT last. that’s because it doesn’t grant CAUSAL ability to create the body, it only shifts the point of witnessing of the body.
The main theme of Lao Tzu is that beings are SELF-ARISING. Not created by some outside God with higher consciousness. His point is not to follow the OUTER nature, but the INNER nature of things – their Qi flow.
When you expand from feeling your own body into the BODY OF THE COSMOS – which is exactly the process of inner alchemy – the challenge is having an Energy Body that can hold a wide range of multi-dimensional Qi frequencies.
One must first refine your inner body essence – essentially your polarized sexual energy that defines majority of ANCESTRAL issue. These sexual polarities are what mediates your bodily feelings. If this sense of balance/neutrality is not achieved within the physical body, then you will not (in my experience of teaching many hundreds of students) be able to hold cosmic consciousness of Nature’s body. The polar imbalances in your physical body will be amplified and cause you to energetically implode.
This is why so many male Indian gurus came to the West and claiming high level of Shen (head) enlightenment, found themselves suddenly in a sexually free environment and began fucking dozens of their female followers. It was a desperate attempt to balance out their top heavy shen with female jing.
-Michael
It is interesting that you talk of shortcuts, use the word, because I did not use it. It seems new information or understanding is met with incredulity.
I made a number of specific points, with the reasoning leading to them. I think they are water-tight. And they are all based on years of practical experience, study, and searching. I am not talking “concepts”.
At the end of your post you talk of the gurus who have sex with women; so there is some defilement there, I have seen it plenty. But so what. Human society is a disaster. My single and only interest is to learn the path – I would learn from god or the devil, from the universe or from the ant. Given the nature of humans, you can criticize anyone. But, given my interest, I am only interested in learning what can be learnt. As I said the search that each teacher has had is instrumental in comprehending their teaching. For instance yours, many of your criticisms of teachers and sudden enlightenment come from your experience of doing such things starting with I believe it was “The Book of Secrets” and the pause between breaths.
I cannot say what happens after 80 years of Chi Kung, I don’t know. There are many juicy aspects to it.
But … I do know some things. I share them from time to time but perhaps they are too different to really be listened to.
For instance, the Indian meditators often do reach a higher state, but cannot embody it. Which is a shame as they are in sight. But time has moved on now, and some teachers are teaching direct emobodiment meaning the state is directly stabilised and enters the body resulting in purification. This involves your total surrender to the Light and giving up of the past. It is a complex inner skill, but in the end all you have to be is ready. Of wanting the future and relinquishing the past. How do I know it works ? Because this is what I do, and it does work. Even the lower dantien can be cultivated directly. And I mean directly without any additional practices, just with the inner movement of your consciousness.
Chi Kung does many things and it is beautiful, but it is 2016, we can -if we have a mind to- compare many traditions, rather than just one. Each has its beauty.
As you see I am combining a number of traditions.
You talk of Taoism being a belly up approach. Indian paths are head down. And Christian / Sufi are heart centered.
I think we can see a pattern emerging. There are 3 main centres. And different schools have cultivated a different one. There are many things to consider here. Many avenues for a new holistic understanding.
Often I have made the point that Chi Kung does not seek to understand who is doing it. Who I am. Who is this energy. What is the relationship of this energy with me. And so on. These are all opportunities for changing it by the way. Not a criticism, but avenues for new shoots to grow. Likewise when I use the term embodiment I am not talking about “the body”. But about your identity embodying the energetic state of your consciousness.
A bigger point was about trusting life, and acting as if we are held by life : perhaps actually our whole lives are already sadhana but we reject it and turn to “paths”. This is my point about merging with emotions and about the confusion that results from the semi-conscious state of the human. In other words if we are able to use the normal boring energies of life, they are already designed for our spiritual growth. But we do not understand and instead turn to the exotic.
This thread was originally about … ancestor work. I have seen many people try to sequentially purify themselves, in many types of traditions, and year after year as they get older they bring out new courses, new levels and layers of their teaching which they notice isn’t working, and then they die. I have seem it … and I notice it doesn’t work. It does something, and that keeps them hooked. But I am an engineer, I am only interested in endgame, now. I don’t like to lose.
We need a force greater than all the past ancestors. What is the force? Well it’s the future of course, we are not seeking to go back but to go forward. The past is done. What does that mean practically? Long story.
Merging with the whole is not the same as going back through your past. How can a little monkey do that anyway? The little monkey must know his place. We beings are all very tiny in this vast existence. It is so vast, so beautiful, can we do anything but open our hearts to it? Poetry, but actually I mean technically.
There was also simply some ideas I had about being with your family and being with them as a human being in a human way.
Anyway, I have made a number of specific points in these posts each of which I think is interesting to consider. For me anyway!!! I am just sharing my experience, I don’t know everything. I am wondering if anything I say is actually listened to, since the responses are not really considering the words and reasoning. Normally the responses are (a) HT is the best (b) I saw an Indian guru who screwed lots of women (c) there are no shortcuts (d) I am starting to really dislike you !!!
(maybe I should put d at the top of the list)
>> Two cows stand in a field. One cow turns to the other and asks: “are you afraid of the mad cow disease?” “No,” says the other cow. “I’m a squirrel.”
DAOMAN
You were talking about Buddha. His search and journey is exceedingly instrumental.
He attempted sequential purification through the 8 Jhana states learning from 2 ascetic hermits. Afterwards there was nothing further they could teach him. Later he formed a group of seekers, and later dissolved it.
One day, still searching, he sat under a tree and remembered a day of his youth when he felt as a child he had been close to a pure state. Using this memory as a starting point and he sat under a tree for 7 days and vowed not to stand up until the job had been done. And he released himself.
(and yes I am sure after his enlightenment many changes continue to percolate through his being for years after, as was the case with Osho, J Krishnamurti, UG Krishnamurti who all described changes years after, also Ramana Maharshi and Eckhart Tolle)
In my opinion no-one gets there with ascending sequential practices, yes they feel good, you feel “energy man”, “hey I feel really great”. Just need to keep doing it. And get the 8th 9th and 12th level and so on and on. It just goes on.
Surrender is one step. And there are not others. Fire & Water. Each has there place on the incredible journeys of beings. I know my place, I come to the end.
Okay that was great fun chatting.
Anyone actually learn anything ? Change anything ? Affected by anything ?
I recognize that it would take several hours sitting together to really communicate these ideas. This forum is extremely limited. It takes a long time for ideas to really be transferred.
“Enlightenment in the Taoist tradition starts from the head, and then TRIES to move down. It shines its light down, but is the frequency of the light able to change the frequency of one’s jing, one’s bodily essence/DNA? This is the problem. This is why folks claiming spiritual enlightenment often have disease and screwed up physical lives despite their claim to living in bliss. Their intent is good – but they lack sufficient grounding to manifest that intent. Immortality cultivation begins in the lower dantian – our center of greatest density and thus resistance – and gradually moves up. Why? It’s like building a house. YOu begin with the foundation, then the walls, and put the roof on last. Then you have a PERMANENT VESSEL for hold your gradually advancing spiritual energy. Then you have an Energy Body that is solid enough that you can travel with it after physical death.”
Firstly I would gently ask what this has to do with Lao Tzu who was about non action and simply being in harmony. How you get from that to having violet light about your head, blue light under your feet, 6 baguas, and this and that … Kaaaaaan, Leeeeeee, and so on. I like it btw, I like the Chi Kung, it is cool and feels good; but I am just wondering what it has to do with Lao Tzu.
If one is tired of the circus then you just surrender, I am half surrendered, the good half.
Secondly : you say “it starts with the head”. What does ? And who is gonna start ? I admire any efforts and creativity but … if you want to know a deeper question is this : how can such a monkey who is making such a big mess do anything ? The need of sudden awakening (frankly any awakening will do for blind monkey) is that you really need help. In a big way. We are only big enough to call for help. That is our size in the universe.
So we open the gate to the Light : even that probably takes 10 years, then you surrender and let it flood in. And by god you need to near die with effort and sincerity to make that happen. It’s no short cut.
Talking about creating the body and so on. Who ? An ego-mad-monkey-man is going to recreate his body ? First we must find out who the real being is, I suggest and then maybe. He is obsessed with his body.
Chi Kung similar to other paths of using skill with the energies of creation, is like a guidebook for the blind. You follow it and it does something. But you don’t know what or why or who.
And the other possibility is to wake up. Then the guide is the Light. And you are awake. The Light is teaching all day long, like your mother, but who listens !!!
And isn’t this really … really … what Mr Lao Tzu is really talking about. The Tao is teaching you … but you not listening, so you have Chi Kung until you get to the place you can listen directly. And then it is like listening to the river, it enters you, it teaches you, it is in love with you.
The Indian meditators are like most humans, they want a Ferrari !!! They want a big energy and blow their heads off.
Who really wants to sit in a ditch with Lao Tzu and be in love with the mud, of seeing a little frog hop along, isn’t she beautiful. Isn’t it enough ?
At the beginning it seems so small, so weak, so nothing. But you go in, and everything is inside.
Michael and I are totally on the same page.
To bring up one extra point worth mentioning:
Ancestral influences are NOT in the past.
Ancestors influence us via our DNA pattern; their unresolved issues got passed on to us and imprinted onto us into our DNA pattern. So they are not in the past. They are right here, right now. They are living inside you, in your blood. They are the conscious aspect of a person’s DNA, and the whole line all the way back influences you in this very moment. You can not separate from them, they are part of you.Healing ancestral patterns is really code for healing the conscious imprints and incompletions already present inside you. When you work on these things that are imprinted into your DNA pattern and heal these unresolved issues, it heals the whole ancestral line all the way back SIMULTANEOUSLY. EVERYBODY that comes before you is helped at the same time. It is a great service to those who have already passed on, but it also will indirectly (typically unconsciously) help those ancestors of yours that are still alive. It won’t eliminate their free will or their need to take their own personal responsibility, but it will provide them some external support to their own development.
But without getting into Greater K&L, getting deeply grounded to maintain neutrality in their presence as well as Michael’s suggestion of projecting the Inner Smile to them, is the way to go.
In *my* personal experience, getting deeply grounded is the way to avoid taking ANYBODY’s actions personally, parents or otherwise. When you get deeply grounded–regardless of who you interact with–your strong sense of self allows you to not confuse the behaviors of others with your own identity, and you can recognize their behaviors more clearly as a relationship that they have with themselves, as opposed to with you. In this way, you can more easily avoid getting caught in their dramas, and instead just hold a compassionate space for them in the interim.
Qi,
StevenThank you for the further clarification Steven! My situation is that I am far away from the US and can’t come to the workshops. So my only option right now is getting the DVD’s and books. Do you have any advice on how to approach grounding in these conditions? I already started learning the fundamentals 3 and 4, is there anything else I could do?
I see from your examples you haven’t had the interest or the time to actually study Taoist internal alchemy. You keep confusing it with a DVD or Mantak’s chanting, etc. My students know well I don’t teach what he does.
So to cut to the quick, you are talking about surrendering to something outside yourself, the frog in the mud, or to some vast Light beyond yourself.
In inner alchemy, which is not to be confused with chi kung, we surrender to the internal process of nature. We’re not reinventing anything, just going beneath the surface into its process. And of course it involves CONSCIOUSLY surrendering all of the monkey mind parts into their deeper points of origin.
If you were really an engineer, I think you would be curious about systematically advancing consciousness using that magic thing called Human Free Will (or call it Imagination).
But there’s no real conversation about alchemy possible that can replace the experience of it. It cannot be learned from a book, or words. Someday, I invite you to try before making hazardous guesses about it.
You are in love with your words. But Talk does Not Cook the Rice. Talk of surrender is not the same as contacting energetically the very hidden aspects of oneself – including deep imprints of ancestral patterns – and then consciously surrendering them to a deeper soul or oversoul level.
Blessings on your Journey,
MichaelI have a lot of experience of Western alchemy, I ran a group for a year, but you are right, not much of Eastern.
The issue I address to you is that in your statements you do not question who or what you are.
And if you are mistaken about your assumptions about your identity then everything you do will be mistaken.
That is the advantage of the route I propose and experience : firstly you find the basis, and then you work from there.
In that way you do not begin from the wrong premise.
If you do not comprehend your identity from the start the you have no option but to become dependent on other people’s teachings as you cannot see for yourself. Travelling to far off sages and doing what they tell you is the approach.
It is better to switch the lights on at the beginning the you yourself can design you work because you see what you are doing.
You say for instance that you surrender the monkey-mind consciously. But you do not mention how you become conscious, because at the beginning you assume you are already. Which contradicts the testimony of so many sages.
Similarly you use the words imagination and free-will as if they are the same.
Anyway, your path seems to have been extremely valuable and wonderful for you; I am just trying to communicate a perspective, but it seems unsuccessfully.
Hi Viktor,
There are people who come to the summer retreats (See Summer retreats) from foreign countries, so that works as an option for people that otherwise can’t get live training at workshops or via privates. But let’s assume that you are still saving money for that option. So let’s talk about what you can do in the interim.
1. Patiently wait until a live retreat and just make do with QF3-4 materials.
Note: Deep Earth Pulsing Qigong is covered in the live QF3-4 course, but is not on the DVDs of either QF3 or QF4. A variant with sexual energy add-on is put on the Sexual Vitality DVD. So if you get that DVD now, that will help with the audio description of Deep Earth Pulsing on QF3. Deep Earth Pulsing is a good one to learn. Additionally, spend time on the 3 Yiquan Standing-in-Stillness Postures on QF4 DVD.
These things will help get you grounded.
In my experience, this material isn’t enough to really do a serious job, which is why I recommend the HT Physical Body & Grounding Curriculum (e.g. Iron Shirt 1, Tai Chi, Tao Yin . . .), BUT these QF3-4 materials are still a good start and are better than nothing.
So I’d focus on those: Deep Earth Pulsing and the 3 Yiquan Standing-in-Stillness postures.
If you want to go deeper, then I’d suggest:
2. Finding a Healing Tao instructor near you who can teach you.
The global list of instructors is here. Do a search on your country and see if there is somebody near you willing to teach you grounding practices. Ask them about Iron Shirt 1 and desire to get grounded. Some folks aren’t actively teaching, so you need to talk to them a little bit first.
3. I do private lessons on the basics over Skype.
Beyond a basic level requires live training (for posture correction and developing energetic sense of rooting), but basic stuff can be learned via video chat. Some is better than none. Contact me privately if you are interested in this option at steven@spiritualtao.com. Cost is $50/hr.
So you have some options depending on your motivation level.
But at worst, as I said, you can get some benefits from the QF3-4 coursework. Just make sure to get the Sexual Vitality DVD so you have a visual for the Deep Earth Pulsing.Qi,
StevenRideforever,
I appreciate your sincerity in wanting to share what you have experienced, and it sounds like you have a lot of wonderful experiences. You’ve read wide and deeply.
But it’s clear to me now that you are really over-reaching when you try to tell people they are wasting their time doing qigong because it doesn’t meet your criteria of identity change.
The case here is that you have not yet grasped the essence of the Taoist cosmology, nor have any experience with Taoist alchemical method, which, using qigong to intensify and accelerate one feeling of qi flow, results in systematic evolution of one’s identity.
The fundamental flaw in your critique of qigong is that you don’t understand that ALL identities are made of Qi, according to Taoist cosmology. Whether you are Top God, middle level deity, planetary being, human being, or ant – your identity is made of Qi vibrating within the multi-dimensional matrix of yin-yang and five phase pulsations.
You remind me of Osho, who it’s apparent you’ve been influenced by, and who, like you, was in love with spiritual psychology. That was his greatest strength. But Osho’s problem was that he never had any teacher, so he didn’t know any methods other than what he read in books. He had no lineage depth of training. Surely he was a psychological genius and incredible story-teller that could pull people into his sphere of thought. And yes, Osho claimed his favorite path was the Tao – but he never once trained with any Taoist. He started as a sex-crazed professor who realized he could gather disciples around him and get laid at the same time. Until he exhausted his jing at an early age and stopped have sex – because he did not know how to guard his jing while having sex.
But Osho’s gift of philosophy and psychology is no substitute for a progressive training in something like Taoist internal alchemy, which has been developed and refined over several millennia. Osho plays brilliant identity games – but that is all really the domain of the personality. When you get the equivalent of a Phd (Taoist alchemy), you are systemically expanding your consciousness into the REAL LIFE of the cosmos, which is WAY beyond clever human psychological identity games.
You progress one gradual step at a time so as to digest each step and remain grounded.The whole point of high level qigong and inner alchemy is to shift from “identity games” to direct perception of the Life Force – even while holding simultaneously the limited vessel of a human personality.
Your questions and assumptions about people starting from the “wrong identity” when they learn qigong are thus embarrassingly naive. Please stop telling people they are wasting their time with qigong. Because most qigong is just a way to get people comfortable with the slowest level of Qi vibration. Tao starts from where you are -which is the personality level. But you don’t need to shift out of that immediately, you need to just recognize the Qi flowing within that level. Then you can progress to a deeper level.
I suspect your negativity to this path – based on false assumptions and total ignorance – is indication of some deeper insecurity within your chosen identity or possibly your path. It’s typical of wanna be guru-types, who want everyone to follow their way, to affirm the guru’s divine identity, instead of encouraging everyone to discover their own way using a tool box of different methods.
I also see you have a love-hate relationhip with humanity. You are on a path of transcendence, which can be a path of escapism for many spiritual seekers. You detest the ignorance and stuckness of humanity, you don’t really love the unwashed masses or see any hope of redemption for them. So maybe that’s another reason you cannot easily resonate with this path of alchemical transformation, which doesn’t deliver transcendence fast enough for someone like you who wants OUT.
The problem with transcendence is two fold. Which part of your identity is really transcending? And are you bringing anything valuable back to Source from your experience here? If not, the doors of Heaven will remain closed until you come back down to earth and love your existence here. A frustrating lesson, but good one to get before you die and there is no second chance.
Don’t take this personally – I’m just trying to reflect back to you what I’m reading in your posts. And no, it’s not a case of my disliking you – but I do dislike ignorance bad advice given to others. – Michael
I couldn’t agree more with you.
As a sidebar, I find it interesting that he himself observes that people end up disliking him, yet at the same time fails to see that HE is the common denominator to this phenomenon. He completely fails to take any responsibility or notice that people don’t resonate with his high level of arrogance and extreme narcissism.
Of course, he likely doesn’t care either, because the rest of humanity is comprised of a bunch of stupid idiots compared to him. It’s narcissism at its worst. And you are right, Michael, he does want to escape humanity . . . he has said as such. He can’t stand humanity; he views himself so lofty above everyone else. He’d like to divorce himself entirely from the collective if possible. Which means he’ll only evolve to a certain level and then Saturn will block him.
He talks like he is authority on stuff here, and he has very little actual direct experience. I’ve seen him tell someone what it means to be grounded, when he himself is not and has no clue what it even means.
He’s not here to learn.
He’s here looking for an audience, looking for people to praise his narcissistic mental ideas. Looking for people to say “oh, you are so brilliant rideforever! I wish I thought of that!” He’s even advertised to the forum about all the stuff he’s learned and how he wants to convey it to the readers here, even as recently as the discussion between you two.Bottom line: He’s looking for followers. Huge ego. Guru-wannabe-head-trip. Quite possibly one of the most narcissistic people I’ve ever come across in my entire life.
Yes, well I think it is a good approach, don’t over-reach I didn’t say Qigong shouldn’t be practiced. It seems anything said is met with that kind of defensiveness. That’s just the ego.
I am offering a view. Nothng more nothing less.
You can indeed follow “teachings”. And then you go to a workshop, see a teacher, and you do what they do. And then after that you see another and another one and another. And so on.
So Qigong practitioners do that. They basically copy what they are told.
This is quite different from other spiritualities which simply seek to wake up.
So, that’s okay. Qigong can help for sure. But we also have to see that being dependent on other human beings is not the greatest plan is it. Are human beings so realiable – perhaps we should seek to be dependent on reality instead. That would be better.
The ego strongly defends itself. It has lots of great excuses.
It is interesting how you described your initial experiences with Indian spirituality because you always talked about energy. That was your experience with the spaxe between the breaths : big energy man !!!
And then interestingly you said you met some Taoist people and you realised:
“I am not as good as them”.
That is a big thing to say. “Not as good”. Your own words.
It’s all a competition isn’t it, more levels, more power, more energy. Being as good. I want to be as good as them. Hell of thing to say for a man looking for truth. Isn’t it.
And you seemed to gravitate to Indian teachers who are all about energy and techniques and sex-mad : here is a tip, those teachers who went to America were indeed like that.
Not once did I hear you talk of devotion or soul, or consciousness. Didn’t seem interesting to you.
But … you went to high school in California in the 60s, tried a lot of drugs, LSD, speed, whatever. Winn, am I wrong in thinking that this name is full of “powerful people”.
So it seems your entry into the path was in that vain. Power, energy and so on. Get high, go big.
BUT, look at Ramana Maharshi, probably the most famous Indian sage. He said simply “abide as the self”, and spent his days looking after his cow Lakshmi. But seems he wasn’t interesting to you.
Not “powerful” enough. Not “exotic” enough. If you spend time with Ramana Maharshi you are not going to be “as good as” anyone, are you.
Right ? So I think you story is very coherent and clear.
It has given me a lot of information to ask such questions of you. And … there is a possibility of you listening to what I am saying. BTW I am only interested in your Qigong techniques because of your unique mix.
Steven would never say anything like to you. He plays by the rules. Who would ? It is easy to find ourselves in positions were we are never questioned.
Once again I am not saying that there is anything “wrong” with alchemy and qigong and so on. And after all these years I am sure you Qi is of an enermous calibre, I don’t doubt it.
I just make some observations in general.
Turning it into a RIGHT / WRONG conversation is just the ego-mind again. That’s how it functions, always YES/ NO. The ego-mind operates through accumulation. Power, energy, women, chi kung techniques.
As long as you are reacting to “I am not as good as them” … then there is a slavery to this inner movement. You are tied to it.
Okay … so let’s take one of your big points, that all Qi is equal, everything is made of Qi, you progress gradually and so on, there is no sudden awakening.
Well do I really need to challenge this ?
Look at mankind in general destroying everything. Why ? Simply because they do not have self-knowledge. You don’t think giving a man a ladder when he needs it is going to help … because ALL QI IS EQUAL. Ridiculous.
It is like when you see a baby knocking milk over … do you say:
“Oh, you know, having studied Alchemy and been to 8 sacred mountains of China, I am not going to do anything because all Qi is equal”
No, of course you are not going to do that. You show him what to do. Right ?
Same if you have been hiking on a mountain, and you can’t find your way. It’s unclear. You try a few different, walk 5 minutes this way, 5 minutes that way, and find your way.
But also you might down one of these paths see the peak … and then you can orient yourself towards. This is sudden awakening. Actually not a bigger deal than going hiking. Just extending your real world experience into the spirtual domain. Easy.
Right ?
Here is another question for you, say you walk into a public restroom and it is covered in shit. Do you say : “well, heaven will not let me in if I have a love/hate relationship to these humans, so I am staying here” ? No, of course you don’t. You go find a clean place. That is also one of heaven’s lessons.
Of course there are times when it is also useful to stay in the dirty restroom. There is also a lot to learn there.
Personally I like to try and experience both. This is real Kan & Li. You experience everything, and this is what I suggest to you in all these comments. I thought that was your path as well ?
So whilst I heartily condone your very wonderful and powerful Qigong transmission which brings inumerable benefits, I think it is wise to keep one’s ears open, and be a little wary of accumulating energy or money or power or whatever. Yeah it’s useful … but …
Everyone has enough time to listen to Ramana Maharshi.
Finally I would say something in a different direction; When it comes to Lao-tzu, here is a quote from Lao tzu :
“Be like this tree. If you are useful you will be cut and you will become furniture in somebody’s house. If you are beautiful you will be sold in the market, you will become a commodity. Be like this tree, absolutely useless, and then you will grow big and vast and thousands of people will find shad under you.”
“Absolutely useless.”
Your quote is : “I wasn’t as good as them”.
These are completely opposite. Do you see ?
What I am saying here is that Qigong is not Lao-Tzu’s teaching.
Though it has its own merit.
And Steven, do you think Qigong is Lao-tzu’s teaching, given his quotes about being useless?
Isn’t the sense of being useless quite different from having powerful energy ?
And what do you think of Ramana Maharshi’s sense of just being ?
And when you go hiking, do you not sometimes see the destination from a lower level and find it helps to orient you ?
And do you think it is wise to become dependent on other human beings, when you could depend on life, or yourself ?
Don’t be so offended that you become closed.
It’s amazing you talk about being grounded and Saturn in the same post. It’s like many of the things that you and others here talk about, you know all that Annunaki, Nimbu, 2012, Mayan prophecy, bla bla bla bla
Truly does this not come from the same fountain of groundedness that is the airheads of California ?
What on Earth has this got to do with Lao Tzu ?
Have you ever even read a single word from him ?
Oh yeah, by the way Steven, you do talk a lot about groundedness and it’s like your solution to everything. And whilst I appreciate the time you take to speak to all the members here, they aren’t all like you. You can’t just tell them to do what you did to yourself all the time. You could try listening a little more.
And, if someone wants a straight answer in terms of practice, perhaps you can just tell them the answer, rather than telling them to buy a course or DVD.
I think it is slightly dishonest to associate what you are doing here (which may have its own value) with Lao Tzu.
And you say I don’t know anything. Well, you know what, you have to be aware of the BS within yourself before you can know anything outside.
I have three treasures. Guard and keep them:
The first is deep love,
The second is frugality,
And the third is not to dare to be ahead of the world.
Because of deep love, one is courageous.
Because of frugality, one is generous.
Because of not daring to be ahead of the world, one becomes the leader of the world.There is no f’ Annunakis in there isn’t it. Nor Saturn Nimbu Planet X Y or Z.
And you really wonder why I talk about “WAKING THE F UP”.
>>>What on Earth has this got to do with Lao Tzu ?
>>>Have you ever even read a single word from him ?
>>>I think it is slightly dishonest to associate
>>>>what you are doing here (which may have its
>>>own value) with Lao Tzu.These are all your words, not mine.
I don’t believe I ever said that.Healing Tao is a spiritual hermit practice tradition.
It is associated to Daoism because of its long history in China and because the 1000+ number of books of the Dao canon contain alchemical texts.If you want to limit yourself to the Tao Te Ching only, that’s your choice.
But it’s your angry projection to demand that of others.>>>Oh yeah, by the way Steven, you do talk a lot about groundedness
>>>and it’s like your solution to everything. And whilst
>>>I appreciate the time you take to speak to all the
>>>members here, they aren’t all like you. You can’t
>>>just tell them to do what you did to yourself
>>>all the time. You could try listening a little more.I never said “groundedness” was the solution to everything. In fact, I’ve even said this directly in other posts. Grounding practices are not going to heal physical disease, heal deep traumas, heal lack-of-self-acceptance, heal sexual dysfunction, break magical/supernatural influences, make you immortal, . . . there is a lot it can’t do. But it does solve virtually all interpersonal relationship problems, stabilize the emotional body, and prevent a person from going off into all kinds of crazy mental storylines. Often when people post, it is for reasons in the second category, not the first.
Also, yes I do speak from my direct experience and say what worked for me. This is true. This the only thing that has any real value is a person’s direct experience, not ideas from the mind. [In the context of this forum, it should be direct experience with the Healing Tao practices, by the way.] Moreover, I don’t speak about stuff I only read in a book or speak about teachings I only heard from another. And if someone doesn’t want to try what I suggest, for any reason, then that is their choice and hardly my concern. I listen very carefully to all the words being spoken, including many that often reveal a deeper issue than the surface one being asked. If you don’t like how I answer questions, again, this is your issue, and not my concern.
>>>And, if someone wants a straight answer in terms of practice,
>>>perhaps you can just tell them the answer, rather
>>>than telling them to buy a course or DVD.If the answer is already laid out clearly in a specific resource, I’m not going waste my time replicating that in some long post. In fact, most are thrilled to know where they can get a resource for their questions. And, in other cases where the answer isn’t already available in another resource, I do give a long post. So this is just a snarky, whiny comment from you because I don’t answer posts in a way how *you* want them answered. This is your arrogance and your problem.
>>>And you say I don’t know anything.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I never said that.
There are plenty of things that you know.
But as far as what the Healing Tao practices are capable of doing, you know next-to-nothing. You have little actual experience. This forum is about spiritual development via Healing Tao practices. So yes, in this arena, you don’t know what you are talking about. And that’s really the context of Michael’s replies to you.But I’ve said what I intend to say on this issue.
You can continue your discussion further with Michael, assuming he wishes to continue to engage with you.S
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