Medical and Spiritual Qigong (Chi Kung)

Is Dream Practice Dangerous?

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  • February 1, 2009 at 1:29 pm #30426
    Steven
    Moderator

    Hi,

    This is a serious question!!!

    If you buy into this “binary soul doctrine” or some
    version thereof, then . . .

    The waking world is driven by the “logical, awareness soul
    fragment” (for the Lost Secret of Death people, the “ba”
    in the Egyptian beliefs) with the “emotional, memory soul fragment”
    (the “ka” in the Egyptian beliefs) as more of servant. Then
    when you go to sleep in the dreamland, this switches with
    the “emotional, memory soul fragment” taking the driver’s seat and
    letting the other one rest.

    By doing Dream Practice, are you short-circuiting this?
    And in doing so, are you causing problems by not letting the
    “emotional, memory” soul take the driver’s seat and express itself?
    Are you causing a form of repression?

    At the very least, you are preventing the “normal”, “seemingly random”,
    creation of dreams from taking place. How do you know that this isn’t
    necessary for the evolution of your soul, and that you are creating
    problems by saying “shut up, I’m going to run the show”.

    My question is very serious. I’ve thought about it a lot.

    In fact, last night I had some dreams (non-directed) that I feel
    were very meaningful and have helped me to progress in a way I don’t
    think I would have, if “I” had been running the show. In particular,
    the dreams brought to light some things I wasn’t aware of.

    I haven’t learned the Dream Practice yet, but I’d like some input on
    this issue before I consider it. Part of me almost feels like your
    dreaming self should be given “free reign” and noninterference–but
    I welcome outside opinion.

    Best,
    Steven

    February 2, 2009 at 10:01 am #30427
    Dog
    Participant

    I am sure some one might look at Dream practice as a way to try and further there obsession with control. I would highly recommend the dream practice audio set. It goes over the dance of giving a communication and getting responses, not control. My understanding of dream practice is ultimately it is to get to a state of no sleeping no waking this is not ultimate control but the ultimate surrendrance to the tao. Over time your dreams becomes more solid your waking life becomes more fluid till they are one. You could say you awaken in the day time.

    It is said that soon after his enlightenment the Buddha passed a man on the road who was struck by the Buddha’s extraordinary radiance and peaceful presence.
    The man stopped and asked, “My friend, what are you? Are you a celestial being or a god?”

    “No,” said the Buddha.

    “Well, then, are you some kind of magician or wizard?”

    Again the Buddha answered, “No.”

    “Are you a man?”

    “No.”

    “Well, my friend, then what are you?”

    The Buddha replied, “I am awake.”

    February 2, 2009 at 11:02 pm #30429
    Steven
    Moderator

    Can you briefly explain what the difference is between
    “Taoist Dream Practice” and what is popularly known as
    “Lucid Dreaming”–because the latter I seem to remember
    being advertised as “become aware that you are dreaming,
    and then decide how you want the dream to proceed”?

    I personally don’t feel like I’m bright enough to
    know “what’s best for me”, and so it brings the
    concern that by infiltrating the dreamscape that
    I’ll actually be inhibiting/slowing down normal progress,
    because maybe the dream self knows better (I don’t
    know if you know what I mean here). How do you create
    a state of more surrender, not less? How do you not
    suppress the intelligence of the “dream self” (if there
    is such a thing).

    My question is sort of aiming at the idea of moving
    beyond the “cool, I can function in the dreamland”
    to “am I doing something useful or am I doing something
    counterproductive?”

    I guess part of my problem is that I don’t really know
    what the practice entails. I assume that part of the
    training involves gaining awareness in the dreamscape, but
    I guess the question is, what do you do when that occurs?
    Specific details aren’t necessary, but if you can provide
    “the big picture” it’d be great.

    Side question: If you do do dream practice, have
    you–while being aware in the dreamscape–tried doing
    qigong and meditation? I wonder what the result would be. 🙂

    S

    February 3, 2009 at 8:14 am #30431
    Dog
    Participant

    You do not control the dream just as you do not control the life force when awake. Lucid dreaming is training the jing shen to more fully take part shen chi and jing. You certainly can do practices thats another great part you are less resistant while dreaming so practicing can be very powerful. I totally understand the fear in not wanting to develop rigidity in the one place you might feel is so fluid but you have the wisdom and love to make your waking state more fluid and your dreaming more solid and experience both from a non wake or dream core space. Hope this helps.

    February 4, 2009 at 10:46 am #30433
    Steven
    Moderator

    >>>I totally understand the fear in not wanting to develop rigidity
    >>>in the one place you might feel is so fluid

    Yes, this is the issue.

    I just don’t want the ego to replace the current structure
    (and whatever its purpose is) in dreamland with an idea
    that it now has access to extended wakefulness (think
    one country invading another so they can have their land).

    I guess the trick is to develop a communication while
    still maintaining a respect for whatever purpose the
    dream realm has. That’s more of a “get to know you”
    attitude than a “now, I’m running the show” attitude

    >>>but you have the wisdom and love to make your waking state
    >>>more fluid and your dreaming more solid and experience
    >>>both from a non wake or dream core space.

    Thanks for your trust in my wisdom and love 🙂
    Hopefully it would be approached that way.

    That’s part of the reason for the discussion I think–
    trying to see if there is a healthy point of view
    that can be adopted–one that can possibly be nourishing.
    Then use intuition to see how the shen feel about it,
    before blazing off on some new path without regard to
    the consequences to the greater being.

    S

    February 5, 2009 at 5:14 am #30435
    blue
    Participant

    1.
    winn dream course is good indoctrination

    2.
    deaths
    smaller
    greater
    greatest

    beath
    absorbtion
    sleep
    death

    thus should be some similarities

    3.
    lucid dreaming
    ala robert monroe astral projection
    is
    wood element practice

    as glenn morris made a comment
    ‘and can see in his liver’ or somethin like that
    about a boy

    however going back to monroe
    after his happening
    he did not sleep a lot
    but his photos revealing
    like kidney exhaustion
    might even be written something like the rv literature

    4.
    dream commands
    are not ego commands
    observe the picture conscious work is not very deepy
    thoughts are deeper
    yet thought is not superficial word
    it is concrete
    or perhaps even abstract
    or even symbolic
    this is already more deep

    so is also with conscious control
    one can go deep only as much
    before having to split up
    which is not nourishing

    5.
    going unconscious is nourishing
    and deepest

    6.
    dream yoga solving
    allign with a issue
    mental wondering is one way out
    but when tired stay here
    stay
    when going down
    then uncousciousness
    when coming back the issue will still be there
    waiting
    so when unconscious conscience meets issue anew
    new learning is gained

    there is method of going down and
    method of going up

    7.
    if superficial dream command is superficial
    what makes it deep

    emotions:
    emotions are deeper that abstractions but less then symbols
    kiss
    so
    after recognizing symphatetic link between problem and its emotional content
    allign with both
    when going down first the knowleables will go
    but with holding the issue dear
    dearness will go further

    timeline:
    what is that one invested more energy in than ones life
    ‘live good life die good death’ bkf
    so
    what one invests time during the day
    thath one sowesth
    ritualistic or not

    8.
    that revealed the deepest issue and deepest dream command
    life
    trust

    9.
    any aimed dream yoga is consumption
    for aimed work even proffesion writers recommend writing down immediatelly
    for life work such is unnecessary. Such happenings are like automatic upgrades for next time work

    10.
    dream yoga is true self work.
    Ego is mouth of self

    11.
    dream work unconscious touch
    dark light
    some light
    unmanifested light
    not lucid/manifest light

    12.
    dreamtime
    get grounded

    13.
    dreamwork makes omens understanding
    positions may be shifted but emotions is truer
    possibilities are to rise up to or let them slide

    rigor (AOL of rv) may weed incorrectness out
    but learning growth will slack

    photo from joe macmoneagle mind trek book p.80
    http://www.geocities.com/hjgfjhgjh/consciousness.continuum.JPG

    consciousness.continuum.JPG

    February 20, 2009 at 7:05 pm #30437
    Michael Winn
    Keymaster

    Your fears are unfounded, as they are the projected fears of the lesser self about communicating with the Greater Self which is more accessible in dream space. Lesser self could not control that space even if it wanted to – it doesn’t exist there.

    dreamspace is no different than space of deep meditation, which is making the space conscious.
    Why leave night space unconscious?

    The True Dark Side is your friend, don’t be afraid to make friends with it.

    sweet dreams,
    michael

    February 25, 2009 at 7:44 pm #30439
    Steven
    Moderator
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