PHOWA

Phowa, from my understanding has nothing to do with the immortal Tao practice. It was adopted from Tibetan Buddhism.
Before making blanket statements about parts of a particular system being “the best”, what foundation do you have in it so that we should believe your statement? Have you practiced Phowa? What can you tell us about your experience with it?
It is easy to talk the talk but can you walk the walk? Any one can have a child but not everyone can take care of it, or speak from the wisdom of experience.

I have practiced phowa in the Kadgyu Tibetan tradition, under the lama Ole Nydahl.

In that tradition, from which it originally derives, as far as I know, it is not an out of body practice (in other words, that is not its aim), rather, it is (mainly) a method for preparing for death wherein the aim is to enter into an after death condition based in the experience of non-dual experience as that is understood within the Tibetan tantrik tradition. it is like a fail-safe measure that you practice until it becomes a reflex that kicks in in the dying process. An outward manifestation can occur of a red mark on the scalp when practicing (which did happen in my case), as a useful confirmation of the reality of your efforts–I guess it at least confirms that mind can affect the body through concentrated visualization efforts.

It is also used in some variations as an advanced yogic meditation method for ‘leaping into the non-dual state’ while alive.

In my opinion, from studying Tibetan buddhism from Tibetan practioners, a clear philosophical understanding of the non-dual view is necessary to really practice this method in its intended form, and/OR–you practice it with a real lama, thereby getting the transmission/connection with a powerful practioner (the first is learning from the ground up, and the latter is the ready made version that can be transmitted to you as a package if you’re willing to accept any conditions that may be attached).

For a good idea of the non-dual tradition within Tibetan buddhism (which is different from and in my opinion more comprehensive than zen etc), see the book by Chögyam Trungpa, ‘Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism’.

Simon

Do not shoot an arrow that might come back to you.

Many words do not fill a basket.

The wisest animal is the giraffe. It never speaks

I guess this is where the spiritual cultivation of pathways, and the method of accessing different states of consciousness may differ between Tibetan Buddhism and Daoist alchemy.
I would be interested to know that when exiting the crown, is one exiting from the head or from another center in the body?

I read the article under your link about the Phowa practice, as well as the link about the Tonglen Practice. It sounds like the intention is to enter a different state of consciousness when leaving the body (the collective light of Buddha consciousness). It sounds like it may be functionally different than Chia’s practice (I have not trained it with him), where the intention is to absorb planetary and stellar consciousness, and then return to the body with it rather than staying merged with the form of divine consicousness being connected with.

The Tonglen practice sounds very beneficial.

thanks for your reply,

It is interesting to note that the oldest lineages in the tantrik dzogchen tradition come from the western regions.

I agree completely that there has been varied influences and constant innovation in these practices throughout their history, making the idea of “pure lineage forms” irrelevant, because evolution and refinement is the whole point of practicing them anyway!

I also agree that at the root, as Michael has often pointed out, that when one looks beyond the philosophical or religious trappings of Daoism, as it has evolved into today, that at its root it is a spiritual science based on the consciousness and interdimensional being of nature. This is probably true also for tibetan tantrik dzogchen buddhism (maybe you can elaborate on this) when one gets down to the actual practices themselves, minus the deities, or with the deities actually representing natural forces.

It is important though, to be specific and note that the terms “Buddhist”, or “Daoist” are umbrella terms but they do refer to a body of practices that are different in their approach.

Daoism from its root (the Nei Yeh, or Inward Training text) refers to the refinement of Jing, Qi and Shen, as inseparable variations of a single frequency of vibration. The Neijing Suwen of HuangDi also refers to the use of Daoyin to cultivate the vital jing essence by the ancients to achieve longevity. These and the later texts that surfaced on alchemy which may have been practiced earlier as secret schools do differ quite a bit from the religious/philosophical Daoist approach, that did incidentally borrow from Buddhism (things like the concept of hell, and the proliferation of deities, and the idea of reincarnation).

It seems that in contrast, (I may be corrected on this) most Buddhist philosophical/analytical schools, as well as the texts of the teachings of Gautama, seem mainly to refer to mind training, compassion, observation of sense manifestations, and focusing on the (as yet undefined) state of emptiness. The important point here is that they do not appear to be geared towards integrating the jing essence into the state of emptiness (which i would presume is a vibration on the frequency of spirit), or giving substance to the spirit. this also seems to end up in denying the physical aspect as a part of the endless cycle of suffering in the physical realm.

Ch’an Buddhism in china has borrowed heavily from Daoism, I would assume in its inclusion of the concept of Jing, Qi and Shen, which does not appear in the teachings of Gautama.

It would seem here that Tibetan yogic practices differ from the analytical intellectual teachings of Gautama in that they do recognize energetic pathways, and recognize the transformation of energy (I don’t know to what degree can you elaborate?).

I am interested in Bonpo after visiting the Potala palace, and checking out the meditation cave of the king that brought buddhism to Tibet. It was a Very intense experience of focused Jing, I would assume because this king would have been well versed in the indigenous spiritual practices of Tibet before adopting Buddhism. Also, that The Bonpo system has a cosmology of the five elements, but with different color and element associations than Daoist, but it is there never the less.