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What an interesting story to read; thanks for sharing!
I like the bit about the master being reached by cell phone.
People with old world habits, yet using technology where appropriate.But I digress . . .
Thanks again for sharing your story.
You’ve had some amazing experiences that you’ll be able to keep
with you in the years to come.>>>Oh, and the pain thing you feel.
>>>I don’t know that the remnants of what I have
>>>gone thru and the pain it created will ever
>>>truly go away, mostly because that is who I am.
>>>I can’t help it that I feel deeply.
>>>It is part of me, part of my family history
>>>and I give honor to that. But the qigong,
>>>the meditation, the taichi …. the good memories,
>>>it helps a lot.No need to apologize.
A lot of people are too proud or too cowardly
to reveal themselves, and yet everyone has issues.
Show me a perfect person with no issues,
and I’ll show you a liar 😉Best to you,
StevenBy using your own mental constructs (*logic*), you are applying them to me, you have created your own limits. (“if point A is correct, then point B must be wrong”). This is ony if we live in a universe delineated by the rules of logic, but it seems that we live in a reality that contains limitless possibilities, and simultaneous truths depending on the person that is expressing them…what you believe for yourself is true (FOR YOU). What I say is true for me because I am creating it in the moment. Of course you can argue this point saying modern science and philosophy support it, but they don’t recognize the energetic constructs of the daoist world because it doesn’t fall under their own LOGICAL or testable and verifiable models.
In order to interface with the material plane, the ling has to also interface with linear time. For a being to maintain its formless (cyclical or ever-present) integrity and shift into the material plane requires a very high level of achievement that most humans do not have (yet), in the case of the human which would have it’s ling or collective self function in the material plane, that human would have to be integrated with those other aspects of itself at such a high level so that they are able to maintain their presence here within this slow vibration, and keep the functionality of their consciousness that (normally) does not function here. This would give that human ever-present knowledge of all things happening to it in the past and future, and if you have that ability, you would have clearly clarified your point in this discussion already 🙂 which in my opinion, there are still a few things that need to be clarified.
Sudoku analogy – the people playing it don’t YET know the answer because they are functioning in linear time, and it is the process that its important…millions of things or thought processes could happen to them while they are in the midst of playing sudoku which could change multiple outcomes of multiple other events.
Of course its all my opinion 🙂
You have been saying for a while that the “lower self” is a projection of the “higher self” (both being equal in value), and I agree with that, but your explanation of what your concept of the higher self is has been somewhat vague.
Your last paragraph presents the difficulty in your explanation – if the “higher self” (collective self – from my understanding) is ever-present and already knows the outcome of all events, then what is the point of having the human physical extensions go through their lives to experience the physical plane if the “higher self” already knows what will happen???
personal or ancestral issues can be live in very deep layers of the self. It is important to have tools that allow you to access those levels to be able to deal with them.
Maybe this discussion points to the idea that some aspects of the ONE, that is performing this experiment of being in the material plane are not ever-present in their experience because otherwise why would we be sent in here to find answers, or “just to experience the physical”, if all answers are already known?
It is contradictory to say that the the “higher self” already knows the answer but needs to experience the physical – if it already knows the outcome then it knows the physical experience as well, especially if its knowledge is ever-present (not linear). It would not have to “wait” for the answer or experience (of a person to go through their physical life) but would already know it.
>>>By using your own mental constructs (*logic*),
>>>you are applying them to me, you have created
>>>your own limits. (“if point A is correct,
>>>then point B must be wrong”). This is ony if we
>>>live in a universe delineated by the rules
>>>of logic, but it seems that we live in a
>>>reality that contains limitless possibilities,
>>>and simultaneous truths depending on the person
>>>that is expressing them…what you believe for
>>>yourself is true (FOR YOU).If the universe is illogical, then there is no reason
to think about anything, including this discussion!!!
Moreover, if you can not use logic, you can not have a
legitimate argument!!! I may as well have a debate
with a fundamentalist Christian who can’t escape their
circular logic wheel.I really hope you’re not being serious, and you are
just being silly for some humor value, because if
not, there’s nothing more to say.Oh boy. Now I see why bagua doesn’t like to
get into debates with you. You’re very frustrating 🙂
I suppose *I* continue on because I’m stubborn and
because I know you personally, LOL. Plus
I suppose it is good training in patience, which we
can all use, LOL. 🙂>>>In order to interface with the material plane,
>>>the ling has to also interface with linear time
>>>[rest omitted]I never said anything about ling. Those are your words,
not mine. I said in the last post that I wasn’t going
to go through and edit every misinterpretation you made,
because I was growing tired of the editing. 😉OK, that was a little obnoxious of me. Sorry. 😉
But the point is, is that if you interpreted that
I rubber-stamped with approval your choice of using
the term “ling”, then you are wrong. I mentioned a
couple of times that we were speaking of different
concepts.I omitted the rest of the paragraph because it was
an extrapolation on a faulty concept. In particular,
more about “ever-present” is discussed below.>>>Sudoku analogy – the people playing it don’t
>>>YET know the answer because they are functioning
>>>in linear time, and it is the process that its important.I rest my case.
The lower self does NOT know.
That’s why things appear to be free will to it.
It’s only when looked at from the outside–higher self perspective,
that you see a script in place.>>>You have been saying for a while that the “lower self”
>>>is a projection of the “higher self” (both being equal
>>>in value), and I agree with that,You said “both being equal in value”. I disagree.
A projection is not equal to what is being projected.
If I project a cube onto a flat surface, I get a square.
If I project my hand onto a wall, I get a shadow.
When you project onto a plane, you get something
“less complicated” having its own properties.In the same way, the lower self is the projection of the
higher self onto the physical plane (maintained by linear time).>>>but your explanation
>>>of what your concept of the higher self is has been
>>>somewhat vague.Because it is beyond our physical dimension and difficult
for our brains to comprehend, akin to trying to
understand fully what a four-dimensional cube looks like,
or trying to understand what the Tao is–for that matter.
It’s something you can only get a better understanding of
*through time* spent in meditation. This is why that much
of my description has been through analogy and metaphor, as
simple words are insufficient to describe it fully.Moreover, it is an ongoing process of discovery as well.
I, myself, am still getting a deeper and richer understanding
as time goes on through my own work, and expect it will
be a lifetime of discovery. I share what I understand.
If that is not sufficient for you, TOUGH. 😛>>>Your last paragraph presents the difficulty in your
>>>explanation – if the “higher self” (collective self
>>>- from my understanding) is ever-present and already
>>>knows the outcome of all events, then what is the
>>>point of having the human physical extensions go
>>>through their lives to experience the physical
>>>plane if the “higher self” already knows
>>>what will happen???I never said that the “higher self” is ever-present
in all times. This is a misinterpretation of “having
some access”. It doesn’t have infinite extent
into the past and future. Such a state would be a
state completely independent of time, and therefore
change, and therefore the Tao itself–which is impossible.No, the “higher self” is not ever-present.
It is subject to time like everything else is, as
everything is subject to the Tao. It is just not
in lock-sync with our linear time.If you draw a “dot” representing the lower self
on a linear timeline, then then the higher self
is more like a filled-in oval centered on the dot.
It has some extent into our past and some extent
into our future, but that extent is limited.
It is not infinite in extent.The higher self knows the physical information it
desires, and the lower self follows the script
to ensure the transmission of the data back.Draw the dot on a piece of paper and the oval
next to it. The center of the oval transmits
the script horizontally to the dot which acts it
out and a future dot near the top of the oval
transmits it back in the same “now” for the
higher self.Hopefully you can understand the picture which
I’ve written out in words . . .You know. Talk does not cook the rice.
Why don’t you just meditate on this stuff for
a good long while? We’ve been discussing this
for a *really* long time now, and I’m not sure
you’re any closer to following me than when
we started. Besides you seem to have a
different viewpoint you seem pretty solid on,
so why not just go and believe that. It doesn’t
bother me any, that you believe something different.
If you’re happy with your current views, kudos. 🙂S
saw this article; thought of you . . . S
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/21/monty.python.40/index.html
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