April 13, 2010 at 5:44 pm #33917
I smoked some salvia yesterday, not enough to produce a trip but enough to give some mild effects. Today i had a lot of chi half stuck in my head, and it kind of bounces around and makes me kind of dizzy when it spikes. It wasn’t unpleasant to smoke it, i almost felt like normal except some very mild effects. Hence i feel surprised it had this effect, trapping energy in my head.
Any suggesting to why the very mild salvia dosage had this effect?April 13, 2010 at 7:54 pm #33918
Drugs burn up your jing and send increased qi to your
head in a feeble attempt to expand the mind, which is
only short-lived at-best.
Thus drugs are ungrounding; that’s what they do.
Why the effect from such a small dose as you say?
Probably because you have a weak earth element, as
illustrated by anxiety/paranoia coming through your earlier
posts about a girl you felt attracted to . . . So
in other words, it’s probably even easier for you
personally to become ungrounded.
Don’t introduce poison into your body.
Then you won’t have side-effects.
SApril 14, 2010 at 5:13 pm #33920
Ok! But i disagree this is the case with all drugs. I took mdma (ecstasy) a few years ago, and that made my chi flow way faster and stronger (almost too much), nothing stuck in the head then. I guess it depends on what drug it is.April 15, 2010 at 5:30 pm #33922
The mechanism is the same, regardless of the manner in
which the drug makes you stoned. The fact that you got
no *noticeable* side-effects from an earlier trip with
MDMA is irrelevant.
Drugs are a lie.
They are like being mesmerized by an erotic dancer, while
meanwhile a confederate steals your car. You get no
lasting satisfaction, and are worse off afterward than if
you had never played the game.
Look, I’m not ignorant about drugs. On my 21st birthday,
I smoked A 1/4 OUNCE OF POT all by MYSELF in the span of a
few hours *after* sharing a BONG of pot with a
circle of friends in addition to the 1/4 OUNCE I had myself.
(For those that don’t understand, you can
easily use A 1/4 OUNCE OF POT to get stoned 20 times
separately). I was so stoned I couldn’t get up from a
lying down position, and that’s just one of the more
mild stories I’ll share.
However, if you do enough spiritual work on yourself,
SERIOUS WORK on yourself, you eventually wake up to
the lie (if helps if you do the spiritual work when
clean for a period of time).
I haven’t touched drugs or alcohol for MANY years, because
I see the LIE as clear as crystal, and have about
as much interest in drugs and alcohol today as I do in
eating broken glass.
When I see people in the Healing Tao doing drugs and alcohol,
even though in person I don’t say much, all I really feel
is PITY. PITY that they still haven’t woken up and seen
the LIE for what it really is.
But hey, do what you want.
It doesn’t matter to me.
I’m just telling you the real scoop.
What you do with it, is your business.
SApril 16, 2010 at 12:25 pm #33924
MDMA is successfully used for treatment of post traumatic stress.
Psilocybin (active substance in magic mushrooms) is used in dying patients, to help them accept death: ‘Researchers are reporting preliminary success in using psilocybin to ease the anxiety of patients with terminal illnesses. Dr. Charles S. Grob, a psychiatrist who is involved in an experiment at U.C.L.A., describes it as existential medicine that helps dying people overcome fear, panic and depression.
Under the influences of hallucinogens, Dr. Grob writes, individuals transcend their primary identification with their bodies and experience ego-free states before the time of their actual physical demise, and return with a new perspective and profound acceptance of the life constant: change.’
To label all mind altering substances as being the same (despite the face that their effects and how they work on the brain differs dramatically) just seems plain ignorant.April 16, 2010 at 1:42 pm #33926
What about drugs realy?
A good question!
In the schamanic tradion around the world there have been much uses of drugs to reach alternate states of mind. To reach into the other worlds like the underworld. To make contact with it and to investigate it. Seems to be a use that might be good at least in some way.
In taoism sertain taoistisk yoga practises have been using drugs or poisons for the ability to reach highet states in theire practises, even if it was dangerous and even if it was so dangerous that it could kill the practioner. An example is desctibed in the story about wang Liping, “making of a taoist wizard”. The know leading taoist of the taoist reality school.
Otherwise I have read about that drugs are using up spiritual or other energies, Jing?, and the freeing of this energies makes the sometimes fantastic altered states of mind. But the down side is just the use of enrgies that are ment spiritualy for other purposes, as for instance to guide you truth your death or vojage into your next life after death.
What about psychoterapeutic drugs like neroleptica or ssri. They seems to solve psychological problems, but there are often wery negative side effects with them, that sometimes first is well known to the general public first decades after theire use. Often there is new drugs created that are advertised to not have the sime side efects as the previous ones, but after some years there seems always to be alot of side efects and then they create new drugs, that they say is much better…
Is this drugs also taking of the saved energies like Jing and shen or similar?
I am particularly interested in SSRI. That is beacase my sister has an illness a bit similar to mine, but also fibromyalgia. She has taken a SSRI drug and she has became much better, in that sence that she has alot more energy to live her daily life. She is realy amased of its effect. I am generally wery sceptical to this kind of threatment and do not believe in it at all. But am I wrong? To answer that I would want to have a deeper understunding of the energetic effects of such drugs. At least temporarily there seems to be some benefits. Where are the benefits from. Well that there is a positive effect from changing the neurons signals to eachother is of course obvious. Why does this give a person without energy better energy? Is it beacase that if your brain functions or other nerv funvtions are not funtioning properly or optimal, then the body have no ability to store chi? Or is it worse so that when using such drugs we are taking enregy from another source and then we might suspect bad long term effects, from the drugs.
This above question interest me alot. Does anybody here have anything to add to that, please.
S DApril 16, 2010 at 1:46 pm #33928
I have never used drugs. Thanks for relating your experiences, it is most interesting. I am not advocating a right/wrong with this discussion but a practical one. A lap dance feels good for the dance but any good feelings ends as soon as the dance is over. Afterwards you still seek out the same experience over and over. So the analogy is you are looking for something OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF in the drug and then becoming dependent on it for that experience, not very practical to say the least.
You could say using drugs for spiritual work is a path with a price but not the highest path. One of the prices besides others is a dependence. With the Healing Tao practices you can have the same experiences without being dependent.
Regards.April 17, 2010 at 1:46 am #33930
My favorite concept on the topic of drugs and alcohol was stated very succinctly by Chia/Winn in “Taoist Secrets of Love, Cultivating Male Sexual Energy” in Chapter 14, “Practical Guidelines…”, bullet #5 “Don’t Make Love When Drunk on Alcohol”.
The exact quote is “When your own energy becomes more intensely satisfying than that offered by alcohol, your need for it will drop away naturally, without struggle.”
This is precisely what has occurred with me, by the way. I had become an habitual drinker — two or three drinks each night to maintain a mild to moderate buzz through the evening. I kind of wanted to quit but was finding it difficult. As soon as I started practicing with semen retention, I became so hooked on my own chi, I did not want anything artificial to interfere with that. I just wanted to do everything I could to cultivate more chi. So, I was able to quit without any struggle at all.April 17, 2010 at 2:27 pm #33932
Blah blah blah.
All these are arguments that sound similar to one’s I used to make
when I was part of the drug scene. You’re not saying anything that
any of us experienced types don’t already know. These are just
arguments that people still mesmerized make to justify their mesmerism.
>>>I grew up in religious community. I was taught that
>>>all spiritual experiences outside the christian
>>>context were “lies” . . .
>>>To label all mind altering substances as being the same
>>>(despite the face that their effects and how they
>>>work on the brain differs dramatically) just seems
There’s a difference between someone parroting some drivel that
they were indoctrinated with/never had an open mind to
explore and experience other avenues AND someone who has
with an open mind explored said avenues and saw to the core
and heart its true nature.
And that’s the problem with this whole discussion.
I’ve seen the LIE for what it is, right down to its core..
You haven’t yet, so you are still mesmerized trying to come
up with nonsense to justify your mesmerism. The problem is,
it’s always easier to try to escape via some apparent “quick” fix
that is actually a negative sum game, then it is to have the COURAGE
to do REAL work on yourself.
It doesn’t have anything to do with open-mindedness.
That’s the mistake your making.
It’s like one of those 3-D “Magic Eye” images where you can
stare and stare at the thing for a long time, and eventually
your eyes adjust “just right”, and you see a sailboat (e.g.).
Other people who haven’t seen the sailboat yet, can’t understand.
You can tell them it’s a sailboat, but they can’t trust that.
They may not even believe it, since they’ve never seen it.
They may say, “maybe it’s this”, or “maybe it’s that”, or
“why don’t you have an open mind that it could be something else”,
but guess what: Sorry, it’s just a sailboat.
And that’s the problem.
I’ve seen the sailboat.
So what that means is, nothing I say or do is really going to sink in.
You haven’t seen it yet for yourself.
This means that you are probably going to have to continue to do
drugs yourself, until the time comes when you yourself see the sailboat.
Let’s just hope that you don’t burn up too much of your lifeforce
in the process of waking up to the lie.
I think that’s about all I intend to say on this issue.
I think I’ve already made my perspective clear.
You have to walk your own path and figure things out for yourself.
No one can do it for you.
SApril 17, 2010 at 2:42 pm #33934
Certain psychotherapeutic drugs might be necessary in
extreme cases to help a maintain normality, such as someone
suffering from schizophrenia . . . but they are so far off
of normal at that point, that the extreme deviation caused
by the drug sort of acts like a bandage to swing the patient
back to normal.
But it should be viewed as a bandage, and a bandage only.
It’s doesn’t really solve the underlying problem. It’s akin
to taking a pain reliever for a headache.
Unfortunately, Big Pharma has promoted this stuff well-beyond
the limited bandage concept in a goal to make money . . . the
goal to have everyone medicated for life.
A large portion of ADD people do not need to be on Adderall
or the like; what they need instead is to drastically cut their
sugar intake, stop listening to IPODs 24-7, texting, and putting
themselves in constant information overload all the time.
I mean they want people to take prescription drugs to get
thicker eyelashes of all things; it’s quite ridiculous.
SApril 17, 2010 at 2:45 pm #33936
Yes, this can happen also . . . and addiction is another issue
entirely, separate from what I was mentioning in my post above.
Thanks for sharing,
StevenApril 17, 2010 at 6:42 pm #33938
MDMA is the only drug i had any real, lasting benefit from (6 years ago) and i only took it once. Other drugs i do very rarely, but i do not really find them that interesting. I don’t see myself part of any “drug scene”.
Of course you need to do real work on yourself: keep a regular meditation practise, keep your body in shape, and try to be compassionate towards yourself and others. For most people drugs probably do way more harm then good. But i think it’s unreasonble to say that no person ever, in any culture had any kind of constructive experience on any type of empathogen/psychedelic substance.
To me you just sound like Mr. Mackey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXnUZBD_qV4
Mmmkay?April 17, 2010 at 7:04 pm #33940
Anything that induces strong spiritual experiences have potential for dependency. For some people a strong mystical experience might even in the long run be destructive. The person might start to chase the experience again, forget about the outer world and only sit and meditate or commit themselves to other practises. Clinging and chasing such experiences only blocks them. All spiritual experiences are only road signs and have to be left behind if you want to travel to the direction they point to.
I don’t belive drugs themselves can be a complete path. But i do that for some people, drugs can be used as a rare tool.
And you ONLY always experience yourself.April 17, 2010 at 7:53 pm #33942
Drugs or meditation, both can alter or change your state BUT the main difference is that with a spiritual experience you still have the end control IF you have enough earth.
The problem with drugs is that the drugs are in driversseat and you have to sit the ride, wanting it or not. Once on the rollercoaster you can not change your mind. That can have a major effect on your grounding, in my opinion for most people it takes away earth, again less of a problem if you really have enough earth & have very grounding talents!
I never took drugs for good reasons because my meditations already gave me enough to deal with, just even thinking of taking any drugs is the most unwise thing to do for me. But I have plenty of experience with clients who took it and come to me with major problems to fix their energiebodies and grounding problems. Because drugs can make major ‘holes’ in your energybody if the process of taking drugs is not well prepared, not well digested in several ways and well ended.
More to tell but it is 2 am and have to rest to teach a fusion class tomorrow.April 17, 2010 at 11:37 pm #33944
Your silly attempt at ridicule through the South Park reference
shows you didn’t understand the words I was speaking.
Of course, you get an experience when you take drugs, and
of course, it is an experience you wouldn’t have had without
For every one of these $15 wins, it costs $25 to play the game.
You continue to slip backward, losing more in other areas
separate from your “wins”.
People who take them I witness rave on and on about the
mystical experience they had, but aside from the fact they
usually can’t integrate it into their ordinary lives, they
don’t seem to notice that now they are much more ungrounded,
much more emotionally unstable, much less physically healthy,
and overall not as far along as they were before. In retrospect,
I realize the same thing was true with myself also from
back in the drug days, but I was too mesmerized by the
apparent “wins” I wasn’t seeing it.
Work with yourself rather than seeking outside sources, and
you actually get real wins, rather than fake wins.
Watch the Stephen King movie “The Tommyknockers”.
It’s like the people of that town who start getting “juiced” up
by the mysterious artifacts in the forest . . . start getting
apparent supernatural powers and insights into creating new
ingenious inventions, but they can’t seem to remember how
they created them or what the insights were after they come
down from their jolt; they also don’t seem to notice that
their bodies are decaying out from underneath themselves, and that
they are basically becoming like vampires; they are too delirious
with their “apparent” wins.
Better to do something that provides a real and lasting benefit
and doing it without losing more in other areas. This can
only be accomplished by looking inside rather than outside.
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