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April 16, 2010 at 10:33 pm #33859ChiFiendParticipant
Thank you for your response. You seem to have a lot of insight.
There was another time when I thought I might be experiencing a “valley orgasm”, but I wasn’t sure if such a thing could occur during solo cultivation. On that occasion, I was self-pleasuring, very aroused and having continuous multiple orgasms. I started feeling out of control and very unbalanced and that was the first time I explicitly focused on exchanging energy with mother earth. That calmed me right down, but I continued exchanging energy with the earth and had many more orgasms from circulating the cool yin energy from the earth through my MCO. I wondered if that might be similar to what they call the valley orgasm. The bliss lasted through the rest of that day.
I did some research on this and other forums and I am finding some references to how retention can be dangerous in that various bodily fluids can become stagnant and possibly cause health problems. Probably I will ejaculate within the next few days because I certainly don’t want to risk endangering my health. Today I am at day 87 — just shy of 3 months.
It sounds like you have practiced semen retention, yourself. If so, please share what you have learned from your experiences. Also, I have no idea what a thrusting channel is. Please explain.
April 19, 2010 at 1:51 am #33861user244075ParticipantYou are welcome. I would defer and say there are others here that are more insightful than I. You have already communicated with some.
If you don’t know what the thrusting channel is, then leave it alone for now. Sorry to answer this way but I would rather see you stay focused on what you are doing and master that then get distracted with other channels/meridians etc. etc.
It may help to re-read Chia/Winn’s Taoist Secrets of Love book a few times. I don’t think I’ve ever read a book once and got everything I needed out of it the first time. One part talks about the different levels of ‘retention’. From physically manipulating to the pure mind manipulation. My opinion is if you are using physical manipulation it is possible for things to go where they aren’t supposed to and maybe cleaning out the pipes may have some benefit. One time I was too physical and started to have burning sensations and after when I urinated it was foamy. It was the semen going down and into the bladder. As you move away from the physical and use more mind you are not arousing any ‘fluids’ but just pure energy-jing that you just circulate. Why would you need to clean the pipes if you are just circulating energy jing/chi/or spirit? There are many people who are celebit for years without any health problems. Didn’t you mention Mantak Chia went ten years yourself? It is only if there are energitic blockages or physical sensation reasons to. So if you still feel fine DON’T DO IT, KEEP GOING, just think how you will feel at 9 or 12 months!!!!!!
The book talks about the valley orgasm. Again you might want to re read it. I am not at that level yet myself. But with your partner through exchanging energy and climaxing together and moving the energy to the different dan tiens you have multiple orgasims. From your posts it seems in the begining you just exchanged energy with the Earth. But afterwards doing the multiples it seems like you had something like a valley orgasim with mother earth instead of a human female. For solo cultivators the book mentions balancing out your yang energy with the yin Earth. You seem to be doing well, that is good.
For me I have a lot of emotional repression and feel it is too controlling. So I have been working on trying to open up to it and accept me. I find that sometimes my repression uses sexual energy as an outlet. So I do Fusion first and then the Big Draw. Using too much adult material or fantasies for arousal especially in excess maybe fun but I find underneath a hidden emotional agenda (usually anger). And that agenda will just keep reinforcing itself that way. Because it is not being dealt with at the surface.
If you get to arousal and feel like you are going to loose it in your practice I find either focusing on the Hui Yin or have the feeling of the orgasim quickly go to the head of the penis and then immediately like a rubber band snap into myself instead of shooting out helpful in not ejaculating. It is also helpful not to have tension or contraction, that may force it out the wrong way. You must love yourself, relax and sometimes use some contraction to pump it into your MCO. Too much contraction or tension when it is located in the sexual center will make it find the nearest outlet which will be the front and loss of it.
When it comes time for a human partner I think it is helpful to remember unless that person is at the same level as you they may be like an extra battery pack and the combination of both of you may be too much current to handle ie too much excitement. So when you practice I find it helpful to think in terms of you must practice to handle twice the amps.
Keep up with your practice and try to master the basics. Remember the practices have been structured a certain way for a reason, not to jump around with. Learn the structure step by step. Hope I didn’t babble too much and what I’ve said may help someone.
April 21, 2010 at 3:31 am #33863ChiFiendParticipantUser…, thank you for your response.
There is much here that makes sense and which I can agree with. I always tell people that when you discover material which is of great value, you don’t just read it once, you have to study it — reread several times. I have already read the aforementioned Chia/Winn book twice and some sections several times. Likewise, I read your post several times. I also read Steven’s post a few times. I got a couple of responses on another forum which were helpful also.
Unfortunately, not many others are responding with much detail. You mention that there are many people who have been celibate for many years without health problems, but I am finding it difficult to substantiate that because of the lack of responses from some of these people. As for Master Chia, I, being a novice, am certainly not in his category.
I am still not even clear on your own particular circumstances. In particular, I am wondering, if you don’t mind, what age group you are in, how much experience you have with HT, how long you have been practicing semen retention and what is the longest period of time that you have retained semen without ejaculating.
I think that what you said about mastering the basics may be the most important point in your post and very good advice. Not only have I not mastered the basics, but I have not even fully familiarized myself with the basics of HT yet. I am in the process of getting familiarized — just beginning.
My favorite part of your post was “… if you still feel fine … KEEP GOING, just think how you will feel at 9 or 12 months!!!!”. That is actually what I wanted to hear. It is so tempting to push the envelope. I was happy to hear someone say it. Having said that, I believe that I would rather err on the safe side.
Perhaps after I have become at least comfortable with the basics and gathered enough concrete information which convinces me that it is safe to retain for a longer period of time, I believe I will go ahead and blow one off a few times a year. Even though I am not a young buck anymore, I don’t think that this will be significantly damaging.
First, as was suggested in an earlier post, I will devote as much time as needed to draining my chi from my semen. Then, with a totally positive attitude, I will let one fly and just enjoy the hell out of it. I am looking forward to it. 🙂
Thanks so much for your response. It definitely made me smile.
April 22, 2010 at 8:08 am #33865ChiFiendParticipantAfter 13 full weeks of semen retention, I decided to go ahead and unleash the seed. As recommended in Steven’s post, I focused on draining as much chi as possible from my sperm before releasing it. I think I also saw this idea in the Chia/Winn book on male sexuality.
In any case, it only makes sense and it sure makes a huge difference. I have recently figured out a way to intensify the cool draw. See earlier post in this thread, “Cool Draw Heaven”. After 3 months of retention, it is not difficult to do.
What I realized is that I could focus on an area where a lot of unaroused jing energy is building up and just gradually pull that energy into my MCO. For me, the anal area is often where I can find tons of this unaroused jing because that area is so sensitive. Usually if the anal area gets a little bit itchy, it is a symptom of built-up jing energy. So, I focus on the itch and just pulling the energy through my MCO. I just keep draining jing from there and eventually the itch goes away.
Another thing I noticed is that I can massage the testicles a bit and that makes a lot of unaroused jing accessible also. Even though I am not aroused, I have some very intense multiple continuous orgasms from this cool yin jing coursing through my MCO.
So, anyways, I just kept pulling loads of unaroused jing through my MCO for about 3 hours or so, until I started to feel a bit unbalanced — too much yin, I guess. So, even though I was starting to feel just slightly unbalanced, I was feeling really blissed out from all the chi cultivation.
So, then I got out the coconut oil and aroused myself and commenced the big draw. After a very short time, I just felt so intensely ecstatic that I knew the time was right and I let it fly. Needless to say, it was a very intense explosion.
I’m happy to report that everything seems to be working perfectly and I didn’t have that letdown this time. In fact, I really enjoyed it and was laughing and feeling relieved afterward. It was fun.
Now, it’s a few hours later and I still feel good. No let down. No mood swing. I can still feel an abundance of chi. Just not bursting with chi like before. So, I learned something — avoid unintentional ejaculations like the plague. Always plan them out and prepare yourself mentally and emotionally. That really helps. I am really glad that I had a good ejaculation experience after retention this time.
All in all, I have to say that this long-term retention experiment was very positive. I enjoyed it immensely and yet, I am not disappointed that I ejaculated. I may release one more time on the first of May and at that point, if not sooner, I will commence another long run — if no problems arise, at least one month, perhaps another 3 months, and, possibly even longer. I’ll just play it by ear.
April 22, 2010 at 3:22 pm #33867StevenModerator>>>I’m happy to report that everything seems to be working
>>>perfectly and I didn’t have that letdown this time.
>>>In fact, I really enjoyed it and was laughing and
>>>feeling relieved afterward. It was fun.
>>>Now, it’s a few hours later and I still feel good.
>>>No let down. No mood swing. I can still feel an abundance
>>>of chi. Just not bursting with chi like before.
>>>So, I learned something — avoid unintentional ejaculations
>>>like the plague. Always plan them out and prepare
>>>yourself mentally and emotionally. That really helps.
>>>I am really glad that I had a good ejaculation
>>>experience after retention this time.And that’s how life should be . . . an enjoyable and enriching
experience 🙂Also, I’m glad to see you are getting into a deeper understanding
and relationship with yourself. Ultimately, it’s not
the expulsion of fluid that’s the issue–it’s the expulsion
of energy. We release fluid all the time (urine, sweat, etc.),
but it doesn’t have to be a release of energy. It’s about
making the unconscious conscious, so you can more deeply
recognize this. In my view, I think retention is only
step one in the training . . . you first retain so that you
stop the energy loss. By not losing energy, it simplifies
the picture considerably. However, in some sense, you
are still being controlled; this time being controlled
*consciously* by your retention. Develop yourself further
so that you can separate energetic loss from biological
function and you’ve taken it to another level . . . a level
where you’ve made your biology efficient . . . one that
functions naturally and is not “forcibly controlled”, but
one that is not wasteful either. This is true freedom!And it seems from your post as if you’re discovering
this true joy of liberation; the one to make choices freely
as you see fit and what “feels” right to you. “Playing
it by ear” and doing what internally feels right is a
major step on the path . . .Glad to hear your sharings,
StevenApril 22, 2010 at 8:16 pm #33869ChiFiendParticipantYes, and just to punctuate what you said with an exclamation mark, I was delightfully surprised to wake this morning (yes, it’s already Friday morning here in Thailand) with pretty good spontaneous morning wood (get it? — exclamation mark?). Not as thick and formidable as during retention, but with a little coaxing, quite impressive.
As you said, it is quite liberating. Just as it was VERY LIBERATING to discover that I was released from the vicious cycle of “having to ejaculate” every ten days or so and released from experiencing the cyclical drain of life force. It truly is another level — to be freed from the idea that I must retain my semen at all costs and to know that the energy loss can be minimized.
So, thanks again for your expert and patient guidance.
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