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well the benefits you mention are worthwhile: avoiding disasters and telepathic contact/attunement to celestial bodies, the latter of course being inner alchemy practice. It is not a static science – tradtions undergoing much sorting and sifting to extract the beneficial. One will be forced to attune to planets since we are part of the whole and the invitation is to attune in a good way; and cultivation practice helps with that. I do agree inner alchemy attunement is important, not just intellectual understanding of correspondences to mundane events and characteristics.
What you define as “overself”, I would simply define as the soul (“ling”). This is to be differentiated from the aspect of the soul (that most people mistake for the soul), which is the heart-mind (“xin”). All this stuff involving vital organ spirits, ego, personality, “who we think of as me”, that is all the heart-mind (“xin”). The ling is deeper than this, and extends beyond this dimension into a higher-level of consciousness. It’s behavior is similar to what you defined in your second sentence as “overself”.
Oversoul (“da shen”) is another octave above this. It is effectively “God the creator”, if one is attached to Western religious concepts. It breaks off pieces of itself to form individual human souls (“ling”) from which to descend to earth and learn inside of a heart-mind (“xin”) matrix. It is made of pure love, born of the Central Sun (“tai yi”).
Language is a function of the incarnating local Overself.
The “Overself” term I am using has a very specific location, function, and context.
It is “Mental”. Its memory system wires into the brain and CNS through an opening ajna center.
This is the type of activity which opens an overself linkage:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/12/health/lsd-brain-imaging/
It is also keyed to the DNA-RNA dialogue.
By any context, the “Soul” is a fusuon of Taoist jing and shien, or a shien harvesting by jing back into original “Essence”.
The Soul is Solar. That is part of the “heart” mind.
The Soul’s “Spirit” level combusts/fuses through the glandular system through the original link to the embryonic torus and cardio-toroid.
The Soul’s mental level absrobs memory from the mental aspects of the Overself.
The Overself is mental in the same way that we develop language and matematical skills which actually help link to the Overself.
Typically it was connected to the many petaled crown lotus of the Vedic systems.
Language is a function of the incarnating Overself.
>>>By any context, the “Soul” is a fusuon of Taoist jing and shien,
>>>or a shien harvesting by jing back into original “Essence”.No, this is not the soul. This is the heart-mind (“xin”). The soul is underneath that. Most of the Healing Tao alchemy works with the heart-mind, not the soul. The soul is on a higher-level of consciousness.
S
1st Formula of Inner Alchemy
“…radiates Heart/Soul Presence of our Original Spirit (yuan shen) into the physical body-mind.”“This radiates Unconditional Acceptance and Unconditional Love from our inner heart (soul)”.”
“Your responsibility as a human being is to grow your soul, not to save it. ”
“This process allows us to clearly receive and transmit our soul’s inner solar logos or Way of knowing. The planets ground a deep opening of our inner heart, so we can become a vessel to receive the Spirit of the Sun. ”
Unite Soul with Over Soul
https://healingtaousa.com/one_clouds_nine_tao_alchemy_formulas.html
Mostly this relates to the Inner Smile, which does radiate via the soul a level of unconditional acceptance to the heart-mind (body). However, excepting this meditation, the rest of the material leading all the way up through Greatest Kan & Li is just working with the heart-mind. It’s not until Star Alchemy that you even do anything on the level of the soul. And these last two formulas (Star Alchemy and Congress of Heaven and Earth) are only just a small taste of it. But everything else, in my experience, working on Greatest Kan & Li and lower is just working on issues with the heart-mind (local influences up through Lesser, ancestral influences in Greater, and societal influences in Greatest).
So 99.9% of the coursework is working with the heart-mind.
In some ways, this is just as well, because most of the issues that people have in life relate to the heart-mind, not the soul. In fact, most of the point to the alchemy is to refine the heart-mind to such a high level that some of its essence is prepared to join with the soul for a possible afterlife. Whether this indeed does anything on the multiverse, beyond this life level, I have no idea. That remains to be seen.
But my point is, is that if you feel frustrated that the alchemy isn’t going into these highly advanced realms that you are experiencing, in my opinion it is because you are thinking that it is doing something that it is–in fact–not doing. But this could also be part of MW’s sales-pitch also, that you may have been misled by, I don’t know.
S
Thanks for clarifying.
I should perhaps have clarified in my previous post that I was including the oversoul quotes/links simply as a resource for those like me who know little about oversoul stuff. Wasn’t trying to entice you into writing a long essay!
Been doing a bit of a web search on oversouls. Thought it worth mentioning that those folk into Ascenscion/Ascended Master stuff (about which I know very little) use the term in a rather different way. To them an oversoul is a cluster of up to 12 souls – see for example here and here.
I see Michael has noted certain similarities between Alchemy and Ascension.
I’m sure Michael is familiar with these.
He looks into other areas all the time, looking to see if he can find any kind of overlap or similarity, and uses that–both as validation of the Daoist views, and as an argument of “Healing Tao alchemy is superior, because we have a more complete map”, i.e. sales pitch stuff.For me, as I’ve said before in other posts, I’m less interested in stories and technical theory, then I am in practices and actual direct experience. People can say all kinds of things, but it doesn’t mean that they are true. The only real truth is what you can uncover for yourself through direct experience via potent spiritual methods. Stories can be interesting, but other than entertainment around a campfire, have very little value, in my opinion.
As for me, I’m not at all certain about this “12” bit. Sounds like a cute story to me, and possibly just promulgated due to somebody acting a channel and popularizing it. The trouble with channels is that you don’t know if they are just having a creative daydream that they then convince themselves and others is real. Personally, all I’ve experienced, or gotten a glimpse of, is one oversoul . . . a “God the creator” figure made of pure love that we are all part of. I have enough trouble making connection to this, let alone investigating if there are 11 more such objects distinct from this one. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t indeed 12, but I can’t personally confirm it given my experiences thus far to date.
S
What you are talking about is a “Mental Soul body” which is all across “Occult” literature.
The point, again, IMHO, is that this is not the core of a Soul which is expressed in the very 1st exercises…
The Soul is SOL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun <— Latin.
That does not mean it is "The Sun" either.
It means the nucleus of the soul is cardio-toroid based from nucleic embryonic development.
Differentiation occurs through polarization and rotation.
What you are discussing is the "Soul" maintaining a substance through the third eye system as a whole body form which integrates through the 12 primary meridians and, in turn, the 12 cranial nerves. That is a "Golden Body"… but the nucleus is still within the core of the "Heart Mind" where the "Holy Spirit" is operating.
Despite the obvious "Mythology" like sounds of this,
I am quite serious as is the tradition.There is a cocooning which occurs through incarnation that infuses the internal within the external. It is exactly analogous to chromosome spindle cycling.
My original point is that all of this is WAY TO VAGUE because none of that is really the "Overself". The overself is mental. It's soul is within the core.
The "Overself" links through the definitive ajna pathway to link memory. The Eye can actually be seen opening. It is part of "scriptural" transmission.
A person's Overself is here to learn and live. It is a terribly big deal. The Overself is developing its SOL. All SOLS originate in the cosmic OVER-SOL.
It sounds like mythology, but it is, amazingly enough, REAL. It is really "electro-magnetic".
That IS the tradition, but the Taoists, to my knowledge have never clarified to the extent of Buddhists and Hindu tradition this third eye interface. The reservoir channels are keyed to the Solar Nucleus.
The origin of that nucleus is WITHIN the Sun or Stars to varying degrees as well.
In the West, this may sound like "just some religion". You are talking about multiple millenia which have real root in the East.
I’m less interested in stories and technical theory, then I am in practices and actual direct experience. People can say all kinds of things, but it doesn’t mean that they are true. The only real truth is what you can uncover for yourself through direct experience via potent spiritual methods.
You may just have a point!!
JEN YAMATO
TRUE CRIME 03.13.16 12:58 AM ET
Murder For a Meme: The Horrifying Story of Two 12-Year-Old Girls Who Tried to Kill For Slenderman
The documentary Beware the Slenderman sheds light on the real-life tale of two young girls who attempted to slaughter their classmate to appease a spooky online character.
A bicyclist discovered Payton Leutner, 12, on the side of the road covered in blood. It was May 31, 2014, and the young girl had crawled for dear life out of the nearby woods, where shed been viciously stabbed 19 times in her arms, her legs, and her torso. She managed to survive, despite suffering major injuries to her vital organs. And she remembered who tried to kill her, leaving her alone amid the trees to bleed to death.
Even bigger shocks were in store for the suburban town of Waukesha, Wisconsin, when police apprehended Leutners alleged attackerstwo other 12-year-old girls, one of them her longtime BFFwho blamed an unlikely culprit for making them do it: Slenderman, the thin, tall, faceless, child-preying boogeyman theyd come across on the Internet.
It seems these days were living in the midst of a true crime renaissance, particularly when those awful crimes seem to happen in the state of Wisconsin. Like Making a Murderer, the SXSW premiere documentary Beware the Slenderman probes beyond the headlines into the human side of a horrific actin this case, a murder attempt five months in the making by Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser on their unsuspecting classmate, whom they lured into the woods to kill one Saturday morning following Geysers sleepover birthday party.
The girls later told police they tried to kill Leutner to appease the fictional Slenderman and gain permission to live in his mansion deep within the Nicolet National Forest, per one of the many iterations of Slenderman lore that exist online. Geyser, the one with long blonde hair and glasses, was the one who carried out the attack with a kitchen knife shed lifted from home that morning.
Im so sorry, she allegedly whispered in Leutners ear before stabbing her at Weiers command.
Weier, also bespectacled, had shorter brown hair. Her parents and teacher recall her social isolation and struggles with bullying at school. Like Geyser, a fairly recent friend shed made, she had a wildly imaginative streak that, online, tended towards the morbid. In court, she sometimes wore a tiny unkempt braid in her hair.
In footage from her interrogation the day of her arrest, she gamely raises her sweater to reveal the bloodstains on her shirt from dragging Leutner out of sight. There, she says, she told the wounded Leutner not to move because youll lose blood slower, and promised she and Geyser would go get help, even though they never intended to.
In Slenderman, director Irene Taylor Brodsky offers a fascinating counterpoint to the shocking attack by sitting for intimate interviews over the course of 18 months with Weier and Geysers staunchest defenders: their parents. We see home videos of both girls as babies, a stark juxtaposition to the chilling sights of watching them detail their murder plot in cold, emotionless detail. Brodsky makes a convincing case that both girls were primed to commit their Slenderman attack by mental and emotional instabilities, bolstered by a heartbreaking revelation during one interview. Tapping an intriguing panel of experts, the film detours into a thoughtful examination of how modern day memes are the new Grimms Fairy Tales for kids raised with iPads in their hands. It argues that Weier and Geysers fixation with the spooky Slenderman urban legend was an example of young, impressionable minds having too much access to scary content in the digital agefair warning for parents with young children everywhere.
But in humanizing the two adolescents as emotionally susceptible social misfits who were swept away by a Slenderman delusion they believed to be real, the film offers viewers a one-sided empathetic viewpoint. Its easy to think that were watching children with no grasp of the gravity of their actions, and easy to root for the distraught parents who cant understand what would make their little girls commit such a heinous act, but want them to come home nonetheless.
Thats why the most provocative thing about Beware the Slenderman, which HBO is set to air this year, is its timing. The film advocates sympathy for Weier and Geyser on the eve of what may become a crucial moment in the girls pending legal case. After a judge declared last fall that Weier and Geyser should stand trial for first-degree attempted murder as adultsthe law in Wisconsin states that all murder and attempted-murder charges for children older than 10 start in adult courttheir lawyers filed appeals to have them tried as children, a condition that could mean the difference, if convicted, between them spending 65 years in prison vs. seeing release in a little over a decade, when they turn 25.
The status hearing to determine whether or not the pair is tried as adults or children is scheduled for next month. That makes the film supremely relevant from a buzz-building perspective, drafting off of a high profile SXSW debut. But its all the more troubling when you consider that Beware the Slenderman doesnt allot comparable space to let the victim or her parents offer a counterpoint from their perspective. One might guess theyd have a very different argument to make.
Thanks, Ribo, for your half-vote of confidence in my work.
I appreciate and respect your attempt at creating your own cosmology crafted from Tim Leary, Islam and techno-intellectual esoteric biology. Ultimately, everyone with any level of spiritual will creates their own cosmology. There’s no right or wrong here, despite your “authoritative” declarations to the “wrongness” of the cosmology I’ve evolved over decades of deep study, and more importantly, EXPERIENCE.
The problem I have with your cosmology based on an “overself” mediating between God and physical human is that it IS simply far too human-centric. Humanity is way too insignificant in the grand scheme of things…who is creating all the rest of the stuff of cosmos, since humans are only .0000000000000000000000099% of it?
That’s where oversoul theory comes in – the creator gods and goddesses of every culture, now renamed. And that is where the dark side originates, to answer your question – the dark side is co-creating this cosmos along with the light side.
This is of course not merely “my” theory. You seem to favor yogic theory – what do you think “para-atman” is? Hindu for “over-soul”.
I’m not sure how you figure my inner alchemy system is a “psychology” system – that is merely one small sliver of a cosmology based on well defined evolution of Qi from source to body and back again.
RIBO-tzu:
It’s obvious to me that you’ve never encountered an actual immortal, i.e. a human being that is operating in higher dimensions. So your definition of “self” (or its corollary “pseudo-self”) is bound up in the illusion of the pre-dominance of physical human existence as being more “natural” than other dimensions.
Your definition of “nature” is way too limited to be of much esoteric use, and contradicts the majority of esoteric traditions.
RIBO-tzu:
>In another example, there is NO AMORPHOUS Overself. The nearest tier is a higher gear of the local person. THERE IS A DEFINITIVE SINGULAR PERSONALITY THAT IS REINCARNATING. All of this multi-organ theory is eventually complete off point.>This is all bare-faced assertion on Ribo’s part, based on what?
If you need concrete evidence of multi-organ theory, read Paul Pearsall’s The Heart’s Code. A surgeon who has done dozens of heart transplants, reporting on the transfer of personality that clearly occurs along with the heart.Lao Tzu never mentions re-incarnation…are we to take Ribo-tzu as a higher authority?
All of Ribo’s “pre-cognitive” experiences I’m certain are real. And easily explained by Oversoul theory…the soul can get information about imminnent timelines from the creators of those timelines, the oversouls. Human-centric Ribo-tzu is still caught up in the illusion of linear time-flow, the past-present-future illusion unique to the physical plane. Does his notion of God live in that slow flow of change?
Again, the limitations of his human-centric cosmology confine the imagination and defy a plausible explanation of a functioning multi-dimensional realty, including explanations of suffering and a dysfunctional humanity. As above, so below.
Ribo-tzu:
I do not know that the children listed in these replies ever had access to any of that and that may be one of the best arguments FOR yogic practices in an evolutionary context.THEY DID NOT, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, CHOOSE TO DIE.>
Of course the children’s personalities did not choose to die. Their souls chose it, as the body-mind is created by the soul. And the souls take orders from their oversouls, who are orchestrating things.
Steven’s Sy’s theory of randomness is standard materialistic science, and not believable – that humanity arose as a “random event” from a bunch of amino acids landing in a primordial ocean, hitchhiking on a meteor? (Steven was also mistaken in his description of One Cloud formula’s not getting beyond xin/heart-mind until Star Alchemy. All three levels of Kan and Li are soul work, far beyond the working of biological heart-mind). But a minor forgiveable error…:).
The notion that nobody would choose to die is particularly silly, IMHO. EVERYONE CHOOSES TO DIE, that is how and when a human life ends. Souls choose moments when their destiny is over. They occur at all kinds of times and places.
A random world is a meaningless world. I don’t buy it. Tao is about becoming captain of one’s destiny, the high level being immortality. The low level is fractured personality recycling.
I am sure that whoever get’s Ribo-tzu’s fragments in some new soul’s next life will have a wild time plugging it into whatever level of techno-reality humanity has evolved into, probably by then we’ll be ready for him.
Blessings on your Creative and Loving Way,
MichaelORIGINAL POST:
From: ribosome777
Subject: General
Date/Time 2016-06-05 22:18:34
Remote IP: 188.165.199.94
Message
1) How is one to lose fear of the REAL dark side?2) In conjunction with this, how is one to know what a “Reflective” reality generation system is?
Michael Winn is right about a lot and put a life time of work into something which is IMMENSELY important.
He is also WRONG about a lot.
In example, I am well aware of the “pre-natal” consciousness flow and a real role of the golden elixir practices in contacting that, BUT
constant artificial techniques will DEFINITIVELY result in suppression of the autonomic nervous system which defeats the entire purpose.
Michael Winn has attempted to turn a real “Ida-Pingala” based system into a psychology which is a disaster.
It is an INCONTROVERTIBLE path to a psuedo-self and that proof lies in the contradiction of natural living systems which it was supposed to attune to…
That does not mean that all that work is a waste or that he is wrong about everything.
In another example, there is NO AMORPHOUS Overself. The nearest tier is a higher gear of the local person. THERE IS A DEFINITIVE SINGULAR PERSONALITY THAT IS REINCARNATING. All of this multi-organ theory is eventually complete off point. That is NOT the reincarnating overself.
I do not know about all others, but I DO KNOW THAT I HAD PRECOGNITION OF SERIOUS EVENTS in my own life long before they ever occurred and choice still had to be made. They were warnings.
I do not know that the children listed in these replies ever had access to any of that and that may be one of the best arguments FOR yogic practices in an evolutionary context.
THEY DID NOT, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, CHOOSE TO DIE.
In Advaita and Zen the goal is to wake the aspirant up from the beginning so he can see reality for himself. There is minimal tuition. Mind-to-mind, meaning the feeling of the correct awakened state (the state of the soul) is shared with the aspirant so that he can continue it.
With HT it is different : a number of courses are offered each with its own practices and diagrams, and you can feel something. And then you move on to the next course, and you can feel something else. And so on. And this goes on for years.
Advaita and Zen in my opinion have a lot to do with Laozi’s statements such as sitting like a log on the Earth. In other words there is no attempt to do very much, but to “be in the right place”. To surrender. Period. To flow in the harmony of existence.
In HT you are very much attempting to do something, often it seems an attempt at outrunning death by amassing courses and energies.
At what point will you sit like a log on the Earth ?
Perhaps in HT what you are training in yourself is not stopping. And yes you can harness many energies, stars, beings … channel the whole lot into you. And then what ? It can become like lipstick on a pig. Like the old people who want to store their brains in cryptofreeze so they can come back from the dead in 500 years. This way of thinking is a disease.
You will only know existence when you surrender to it.
( I do not know what the goal or destination of HT technology is, but I do know that sitting like a log on the Earth is to bring the 10,000 things to an end … and then a new life begins )
As for why people suffer ?
If existence were to be mechanical with fixed rules, it would be non-alive and non-existent.
But existence is alive which is why we feel alive. It means that anything (or many things) can happen.
Of course there is an intention and system inside existence that provides challenges for each soul and personality to grow. Of whatever species.
Everything is being tested, at all levels.
It is a real test.
Existence is wise and it gives you hard tests, because if you are not ready it is best to leave you where you are. Any compassion by unwarranted assistance would just make you weaker and stupider. Even the sun will die and suffer.One must learn to love the challenge of existing.
All the stories concepts and history will be burnt on a pyre when you wake up.
In Indian spirituality there is no tan tien. Why ?
Why is because the goal there is to illuminate the centres of the head, the “awareness” aspect of the soul. That is why in India the spiritual paintings have halos around the head and 3rd eye. Same with Christianity.In taoism it is all about tan tien. Why ?
Why is because the goal is to “illuminate” tan tien, a different centre of the soul.Why does Laozi sit like a log on the Earth ?
In Zen there is the same focus on tan tien. The direction is down, surrendering down through tan tien. You die into the source accessed through tan tien. You become the “withered tree” as all your energy falls as if you never will surface again. As your breath exhales you fall deeper and deeper until you die.Qigong practices of making new energetic structures is not sitting like a log on the Earth.
Of course Qigong may have its many considerable benefits.
I am not sure if HT is attempting to make the human immortal without the soul? Honestly I don’t know, but I do know that Advaita works.
One thing is for sure, all this talk of extending your life until you become immortal is good marketing. I would ask to see the green right at the beginning. It feels a lot like politicians say that we are working towards world peace, and it’s right around the corner, this time.
We must respect all paths teachers and aspirants, but in the end we must cross the river or it will all be for nothing.
Another thing, there is this idea that we will cleanse / purify the human so he is ready for integration with the soul.
But who is going to do the cleansing ? The human ? That would be like the blind doing brain surgery on his own head.
Yes other beings / energies could do a little operating and clean out the mess. But they can also make a big mess !!! Let’s hope not.
But of course the best answer is to ask the soul to do it. Then you have light cleaning darkness. The soul is reliable as it is you.
“For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.”
Jesus“A sage lives long who does not care to live long.”
LaoziLongevity to Immortality
If one could do this it would be a very high-level approach. But as the above teachers are indicating, perhaps a complete commitment to your own spiritual death is more realistic for human beings.
For most humans addicted to doing and having, like those who amass trillions of dollars but are still miserable, there are obvious dangers.
Is having beautiful hair and being fit and supple at 60 important if you haven’t done the second bit ?
If you are on a high-level path, then many things are expected of you … and you have to fill in the blanks of your tradition yourself.Water and Fire Methods
Water methods are indoctrinating you from the beginning to descend, to flow, to surrender. That is the good thing. Humans are quite thick skinned and to get that feeling inside will take you towards Laozi.
All methods include fire and water, but the water method has as its advertising this feeling of surrender.
Is surrender in HT? I have not seen it. In fact because the emphasis is on repeating other people’s methods, self-knowledge is not created … not in the same way as sitting on your cushion and facing the inner darkness.
Perhaps HT is a method to ferry those who cannot meditate to safety?Lazer Beam Eyes
Look at those old pictures of Laozi. Where are the spinning purple chakras? Where is the glowing big dipper sucking is a vortex?Perhaps reality is not that exciting, and all that excitement is still part of the dreams of a certain species of ape?
Look at Buddha sitting.
Isn’t it.
So I do HT every day, but I also sit every day.
I am not criticizing it, just placing it on the right shelf.Making People Feel Good
At all levels in society people are trying to make each other feel good. Medicine and the health service, films, food … there is this deep instinct in our species to help each other.But the spiritual path is the recognition that a great shattering must take place to really feel good.
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